Japanese Society

Dang, I wonder if there are alot of people who think this way in Japan. I have met no one who feels this way in America personally.

If I was brutally honest, I agree with alot of that train of thought and found myself nodding to many of the comments. This is kind of personal so I will leave it at that.

ALL HAIL JAPAN!!(bow) xD

I'm only intesrested with 2D girls XD

"Solution is simple - make it so that anime and manga characters can get pregnant."
XDD Awesome.

Still this is pretty depressing news, I guess the otaku world is too addictive for some people...

(^_^) lol! "The problem is that dolphin waxing feels good." (~!_!~)oh my!

Looking at it from a cultural point of view, it would be quite a crying shame if all the history, art, and - yes, 2D world - of Japan were to vanish completely because the population had grown too old and withered away in nursing homes and the like.

Practically, too, who is going to take care of the 2channers when they become old and white-haired, if not the succeeding generation/s?

On the other hand, the entire PLANET let alone Japan or even my own country has bee long overdue for population catastrophes. For us in the Philippines, we'll die of overpopulation; Japan of the opposite problem.

(and the two countries cannot exchange populations - that is missing my point.)

One word solution: Clones.

Seriously, I think the Japanese would far prefer mass cloning to the prospect of seeing their country overrun by immigrants. They'll try the robot thing first...but when it fails to provide a working society, expect cloning to be legalized.

It's really quite sad and absurd that the men there (not all) keep denying this situation and their role in it. But from an outsiders point of view, I really don't know how hard the struggle is. I still find it hard to believe that life is so hard there that you want to give up and shut yourself in. I suppose, even in it's roots, people were always pressured and held accountable for bettering your community. I guess the same reasons still hold true to this day there.

Robin does not understand Japan well enough...

I just really want to slap people who make arbitrary socal comments about other about other countries or groups of people damn bbc :p

Using 2chan as a source to back up a stereotypical view of Japanese men? Sorry, but that's not all Japanese men thank goodness.

It's funny how it's gone from "they are too busy working too many hours" (which I think does have more of an effect) to "they are all otaku who would rather not deal with the real world"

Has anyone done a study as to how expensive it is to raise a child in Japan? Maybe they would find more legit answers there than a bunch of guys hanging out on 2chan.

I hope they'll employ me in Japan
In here was just the opposite , too many people and job are scarce

Does that mean it will be easier to mímigrate to Japan soon cause they neeeeeed us foreigners? ;) hehe

Well, i would hope so... on the other hand if that guy is right, it is a bit sad... i like Japan how it is and when it would be flooded with foreigners one can only hope it survives this "culture shock".
But considering how things are now i doubt that a flood will happen any time.

The comments are something though, mainly by netizens who basicaly life online anyhow.. so this outcome is understandable.
I think proper comments won't be made there since the "proper" working japanese man either has no time to browse this site or might even doesn't know of it's existence.

In case of having a kid, i wouldn't want one either right now.
The worlds situation right now is pretty vague... it's not really "secure", i wouldn't want to put a life in this world. Rather, i would adopt one t hat didn't have a chance but being pushed in here IF i wanted a kid.

with comments like those, no wonder Japan is screwed...

"it'll need to import 17 million foreign workers over the next 40 years"

well,i think this is a big chance for japan lovers :)

Well if there's cute Japanese girls looking for a real man to have kids with, then I guess I'll just have to step up and help Japan out!
Not afraid of 3D girls or making kids with them... but I don't like children... orz.

Seriously, many factors probably come into play here so I'm not sure it can be so easily surmised by either Robin Lustig or the 2chan crew.

One remark is true though, Sanya is too cute. ^^

Erm i think the flagging population births is not unique to japan, lots of countries are facing the same problems. Looking at the practical way one will only conclude that marriage is going to crimp one's quality of life (materialist pt of view). It's the same situation here in my country, thus the opening of the immigration floodgates (currently 30% foreign born) there might be some problems in the sustainability of this solution too. Lots of grievances about how jobs are taken away from locals, etc.

No-win situation as far as i can see, as such in the long run we are all doomed. ^^

I'm a pretty big geek (otaku and way more) and i've had over 14 serious girlfriends, just haven't met one that i could see spending my whole life with. Last three lasted five years each too. That said, i've seen way too many friends get married and then have to abandon all their hobbies for the wife. Not worth it in my view. Let's not even get into bridezillas and such. (the tv show Bridezilla's is the best anti-marriage show ever, so is John an Kate Plus 8, and that's a great birth control too)

that said, those are some priceless answers up there. :)

Personally, I don't think it's connected.
Like every one has said, most of the fans have regular jobs and lead normal everyday lives. I even work with a few people who slip the odd anime references into everyday conversation. It's always the vocal few that grab the most attention.

Well anyone who loves the culture can keep it alive, but if it's the question of the population of pure blooded Japanese, then that depends on how much we can actually refer to the answers stated above...

Such a high number of old people, sometimes technology can be bad? Heh.

I afraid I have to agree with most of the points stated there ^_^

the last place you should look at for reactions is 2chn. i would take what they say with a huge bucket of salt. being hypocritical is their game. honestly, though with that much pornography flying around, you would think japanese men would be tempted to settle down and consummate their marriage. apparently not.

reality?
its just between blue pill, and red pill.
choose one

i agree with many of the views with respect to myself. my country here is so overpopulated and so selfish that the main aim of the people here is to make money at any costs and at any lengths. As it is, its practically impossible to travel by any means of public or private transport comfortably. Also girls here want rich men, not their fault since the real estate and prices of goods have almost doubled in a few years, and even they have dreams of living in luxury and so on.

For me the obstacles are too many and too high, making me retreat into a shell. I'm like one of those failures in life. I know its a very negative thought, but i cant help it.

-I tried to fight with reality but failed so many times.

this line holds very true to me.

The Love Plus comments make me laugh.
Seriously though, some of them have a point, there seems to be three main reasons they're making, 1; real women, 2; money 3; they love their otaku lives too much. We throw a reason at them, they will throw one of those reasons back, its hard showing them theres more out there.
I consider myself an otaku and it makes me depressed thinking I could be classified as one of these guys, but I do think of the future with a family. My job isn't great now, but it could be, I could take over my parent's restaurant, but its not something I want to do for the rest of my life.
You just have to step out there and look around, its not like one has to give up they're current lifestyle, its just about expanding it.
As for the women's side, not trusting men anymore, well, they have good reason to, but its not like all men in Japan are otaku are they?

After reading this it kind of saddens me. When I was young I used to feel that way, but honestly, your passion wont go away if you just step outside the box for a minute. Absorb and experience everything you love. Dont live it, or youll miss the beauty of life itself.

While I'm not out in the real world yet, it's pretty disappointing to see these comments D;

Hope society will change. And I hope these are mostly joke comments.

Videogames have gotten a bad rap in the past, but now they're being blamed for the eventual extinction of a race of people? lol.

I have to agree that looking at 2chan probably won't give the best of answers :/

On the list though, I can kinda understand the money and responsibility part of the issue but everything else was a gd laugh. :l

In all seriousness, I don't think anyone truly believes, Anime, Manga, and Video Games are the direct cause of a declining population, among other things. But I do think it's a reflection on this generation being overwhelmed by the difficulty in living in this current climate and I'm not just talking about Japan. Everything has gone up, the cost of education, the cost of living, entertainment, transportation, etc.. So why wouldn't people stay home instead for their entertainment/escapism? And this generation has to deal with a much more competitive market then generations past, getting an education is much more competitive and costly, a college education doesn't guarantee you anything anymore, and it's a global economy so everyone is affected. In certain countries, having a college education means your still sweeping floors. I have a relative who was an architect but now he drives a taxi to support his family. It is what it is. But who in their right mind would think that a pastime would be a root cause.

I can actually understand most of the comments though, it's the same here. You see less people marrin [and a good part ends in divorce], and less children as a consequence. I can relate to someone sayin "at least I have manga, otherwise I cant go on". Sad? Maybe, but it's true for someone. There are people out there that have lost "faith", usually because they've been cheated one time too much. And not only in man/woman relationships, I guess for friendship it's the same more or less.

Frankly, i think most of those 2ch statements have truth in them..

Life is hard, with that people cling to those with more money or so..~
Competition is fierce, there are more jobseekers than there are positions

and yep, Gender stereotypes that men should be able to support the family all by himself...
maybe that's why their morale is already broken when it comes to marriage..

Well I should go to Japan, and find a job relating to programing/IT area.

According to one United Nations estimate, it'll need to import 17 million foreign workers over the next 40 years, just to keep its economy afloat and provide enough carers to look after the elderly.

I think they make calculations like this for all western countries. Here it's the same (different numbers though) and the politicians goes "oh no, we better import people" so the population is increasing! (this was to avoid getting fewer people, not gain people!) and a noteworthy part of the imported people turned out to be uneducated people with no interest in learning a new language. The result is a whole lot of people living in ghettos with crime and social welfare as only income. Just importing people is not the solution.

Importing people also alters demographics as the new people stick to their own culture and religions. Also the majority cares very little for the local history and historical landmarks (it's not their history after all). Not surprisingly opening the borders is like setting up a welcome sign for people with bad intentions, like drug traffic.

-There are too many Japanese people anyway so decreasing the population would be just right.

This is what I have been thinking. The planet is too crowded (just think of China and the one child policy). Some people work hard against over population. At the same time some other people work hard on getting more and more people... seems stupid to me.

-Japan is on the decline because women prefer good looking men with money.

There is more truth to this one than most people imagine. In a modern world people can live on their own just fine and it's a financial bad thing to get married. 100 years ago it was bad for you if you didn't get married. Looks like the social model used today has a serious flaw.

I would like to point out one thing which nobody mentioned yet. Yesterday the inventor of the birth control pill said in public that he regret inventing the pill. The problem is not that it works, but the fact that doing it is no longer linked to getting babies. This has resulted in the worst case scenario where people stopped having enough kids and this seriously hurt demographics. No pill and no abortion would really change this issue into something else (for better or worse).

There is one more issue affecting this. Today everything is me, me, me and what do I gain? (basically screw everybody else). It used to be more like what's best for us. An example of this is life insurance. If a person somehow get ill and can't survive then that person tries to get the entire payment from the insurance and use it before dying. Not long ago the whole idea of a life insurance was to take care of one's family if you passed away. This selfishness is visible everywhere (like when a car change lane to win 1 second and delay 50 cars by 5 seconds when doing so... happens all the time)

I believe that otakus are not the cause of declining birth rates in Japan. I think that low birth rates are caused by the fact that 1. it's expensive to raise a family in Japan, 2. majority of the population don't want to trade their freedom being single with heavy responsibilities that comes with marriage, and 3. the two genders each have their own expectations regarding the opposite side (females want a rich young man so that they could stop working while the males want their future wives to work like them and help out around the house). Being an otaku is just the result of the aforementioned problems. BTW I know that there are a lot more problems that contribute to the low birth rates but I can only think of three right now XD

I'm the opposite of the comments made by 2ch. I actually want to get married and have children. I want a wife who'll stay with me until my last breath and children that I could love. Unfortunately, I don't trust people so easily ESPECIALLY women (bad experience in the past -_-). Also, extra-marital affairs (and divorces) seem to be very common nowadays which makes finding a very trustworthy woman very hard to find. So despite the fact that I want to get married, I don't want to be a victim of an unfaithful relationship. I rather get shot repeatedly by a machinegun than to experience the pain of being betrayed (I'm not gonna experience that AGAIN) -_-

You don't need to give up your interests when you get married. You just need to know which one to prioritize. The problem is people nowadays are too free. They see things like marriage as a hindrance to their freedom because they're not responsible enough. If people don't change the way they see responsibility, sooner or later we'll see the same problem happen in other countries.

Life us hard, but that's life.

Hahaha! this is the best thing I've read in a long time
And I'm a brit.

Time for me to move~~~

Look at all that comments!! o_O

But anyway, eventhough my reason is different, I can understand their reason of not wanting to get married. Getting married is a serious bussiness, coz it means no more selfish thinking. Not to mention Japan's declining economy (for now), which make costs for marriage is kinda hard to swallow.

And if you live in Japan, you'll know that some women really does married for financial reason, they even take payment when they make bentos for their husband, demand money when husband want to make out. And believe me, all that I said here is true. Not all women are like this though, just some of them. This is a public secret in Japan.

And to Robin out there, please, try to see things from Japanese men's prospective before you post anything like this.

All I can say is... so ronery. ;_;

so in japan this problem only for male right no woman prefer 2D ^^; is this called as abnormality ?

Look im obessed over anime and all that but thats...thats just sad.

"-The decline of the population has nothing to do with games or manga. "
True , The decline of the population mostly blamed to both Men and Women of Japan .

" -Getting married and having kids is happiness? "
I dunno if I'm up to this point yet through out my life . I do want a daughter of my own though ^_^

" -My partner is Hatsune Miku. I would do anything for her and we are thinking of having kids. "

Hatsune Miku is my partner to you know!!! and I don't think were gonna have kids .

" -But in reality women don't want to marry us unless we earn more than 10 million yen (100,000 USD) per year. "

Yup , that is reality . I don't know If I can even earn 3 million yen a year .

" -There are too many Japanese people anyway so decreasing the population would be just right. "

Maybe there right . If you just look at Japan in the 1950's . japan's population is huge . So maybe this is the solution to Japan .

LMAO 2ch anons XDD

Y made of LOL and awesome?

well...i agree on some comments like 2D girls won't betray and would understand you and accept you on who you are lol

I look at this and get a chuckle out of it, looking for a serious response from the 2ch is a joke, although some of those comments had some truth behind it.

Allow me to throw my 2 cents in. I personally, do not believe "everyone" (in the preset age) is suitable to get married and have kids in general term, not exclusive to Japan. Getting married and having kids is a huge burden that not everyone can bear, especially in the present age where majority of the young lads growing up and live in the "Me Me Me" generation. Getting more people to get married just to have half of them failed miserably isn't exactly a constructive social phenomena either. And having kids is even a bigger burden these days than ever because of the world we live in right now promote the aforementioned selfish behavior. I have more problems with people who aren't really ready for a marriage to get married than people giving up on getting mate.

And for me, while it is unfortunate, I have no plan to participate in the social phenomena known as marriage. In a recent brain sex test result, where most men would scored 50% male brain 50% female brain, and conversely for women. The result is suppose to illustrate that a 50%/50% man should try to seek a 50%/50% woman. I have a total score of 0%, effectively means that I have a complete balanced brain, or gender neutral as I call it myself, so adding anything other than 0% to me is actually a bad thing for me.

I'll be one of the import workers for Japan if needed! :woop: the UK's gonna be bursting at the seams soon anyways... so it'll probly be good to get out before it sinks....

Some of the comments are just hilarious... And sounds pretty typical of 2ch too although some actually make a bit of sense.

As for this whole marriage matter, I don't think it has much to do with Anime/games... How much of the actual Japanese population are made up of "extreme" Otakus? I think the problem may have more to do with people wanting to stay single these days because that way, they have more freedom to experience more in life with the increasing number of luxuries to be had. Or, it's because women can be more dependent on themselves now that they can get a job more easily than the old days and want to achieve for a greater sense of satisfaction?

Personally I think an understanding couple should be able to enjoy each other's interests and work towards goals together even if they're not of their own if they really love each other but, that might just be me.

Btw, I noticed you translated イギリス as "England", DC but when I learned Japanese, I learned it as "UK". It seems to be the case on Wikipedia too but when I actually use the word with my Japanese penpals, they all seem to think England... So which meaning's correct? Now I just tend to just write 英国 but they still think England ^^;

It is possible people are used to being social, yet isolated, thanks to the web and computers -- and thus less "real" interaction. The kinds of interaction that lead to relationships and whatnot.

I think a little encouragement could go a long way... I know I could use some.

Personally prefer 3D over 2D girlfriends. 2D GF waxing dolphin result with pretty painful paper cuts and lot's of explaining at the ER. LOL
But seriously, if 2chn is a close measure of what Japanese men think then they have a problem. Then again it should be taken with a bit of salt me thinks. -_^

10-minute wedding?

Sheesh, 2chn is the last place to look for comments on such issues though still I do rather agree to some comments saying marriage is costly and troublesome but not marrying due to their 2D girlfriends...

I really do hope they're joking...

I can help populate the world for them! Let me and my wife have 10 babies, and a goalkeeper!

To be honest, I would rather have my darling Kotori by my side than to get a 3D wife. I don't think any woman out there would be able to give me the motivation to Lead, Excel, and Overcome like Kotori does.

The problem, in my opinion, is that 3D women are becoming more and more materialistic. They would rather have a rich man who doesn't give a crap about them as a husband over someone who can protect them and love them for who they are.

Moreover, they are always lustful. Once they find a richer and more good looking man than you, they would just dump you for him.

2D girls are waaaaay better looking than 3D ones anyway. They have better personalities too.

It's really sad, actually, that the price we have to pay for a better quality of living is true love.

"Japanese men have shown themselves unable to adapt to the needs of a new, more flexible society - and have retreated into a fantasy world of comics, video games and animated pornography where they feel less threatened."

Ugh. This isn't the only article of its kind. Every "Downfall of Japan" article is like this, probably to make the reader feel better about himself in comparison to the supposed mass of wimpy Japanese men. They also all have an air of authority on the subject. This is terrible reporting, but every news outlet does it! CNN had a front page story about a (fake) senior citizen porn craze and the New York Times ran a feature about the (made-up) masses of men dating their love pillows in public. Western journalists have made Japan the world's garbage can of news.

Good god some of the comments on that list are so effing stupid. They all sound like a bunch of spoiled little 12 year olds. Now I don't blame the women who choose not to go out with these losers.

Not surprised for yet another outsider's view of Japan which has little or no true in the aspect at all. Where's the proof? Without it you know the article is bias and is subject to your feelings.

Money makes the world spin, it also is the key to meeting a nice girl sadly ;_;

Sad, maybe it is, but giving a complex problem like this a simpler a solution as the writer describes is sadder. When it comes to human nature and mind perception any subject is complicated. Blaming the men or the hobbies of a part of a society is not entirely fair, it has to be a underlying problem. I don't think the writer is bias, but as a foreigner or outsider could be difficult to really grasp the realities of other society, and totally understand all their rules.

"My (2D) girlfriend is Aika-san. She lets me meet her whenever I want and greets me with a smile if I forget a date - and she does not cost money. Thats all I need."

Seriously wtf....Japanese...

And i am pretty sure those boys are playing Dragon Quest lol

Don't worry, I will came from Italy to save Japan... at least, all Japanese girls :P

It will be interesting i Japan changes it's immigration policy to combat this problem

Reality itself is cruel and all of us are living under that which I think this makes Many single people like us ignores it and prefer staying at virtual side where we can do what we want to. For me temporary I'm trying to face the reality at this moment but still without the virtual side I might as well as becoming a dead person. still my otaku side on anime won't change forever!

Hmm, feel sorry for the Japanese, but I have no doubt that their problems will be solved by 2050.
"How?", you ask. To incounter the problem, Japanese scientists are now (in collaboration with Japan's finest Otakus) secretly creating a Gundam/Human Cyborg. Danny is of course in on this, and when apocalyps comes, all members of DannyChoo will be saved and brought to the Sacred Otaku Land.
THE END IS NEAR (Except for us :))

I feel for these guys. IRL sucks. If the holodeck existed, I bet there are many people who'd set it up, start the program, lock the door, and then try to forget about the "real" world outside.

i don't like how they take the opinions of a very few and make it represent everyone. especially blaming guys, i don't think otaku minded people account for enough of the population to cause such a big trend

You should take a look at Current TV. They did a documentary on Japan's population problem months ago titled "Japan: Robot Nation" and I find it to be much more informative and educating than the article above.

Current TV's Website
http://current.com/

Direct Link to Japan: Robot Nation
http://current.com/items/89610631_japan-robot-nation.htm

Those comments are kind of sad.
But I don't think 2D is the real problem. The real world is.
It's not easy that to get married, financial problem and complicated stuff.
And I don't think it's that bad that population is decreasing. Less competition, and maybe things will get simpler.
And how about otaku x otaku?

Those comments are very sad, and its more sad that for most Japanese people its true. 2D/3D is not the real problem, but its a problematic result of the real problem---reality. Work/personal life balance in Japan sucks. Most people work such absurd hours that its not worth the time for them to try and find someone to get married to. And even if they did, they would hardly see each other, which then leads to infidelity. For the lucky few who have a fairly decent work/personal life balance tho, life is peachy. Another reason people don't get married is definitely b/c of the cost (tho technically you get most of that money back in gift money). As for population decline, my personal opinion on it is that Japan's social welfare system for women and kids is very lacking, plus more women want a career.

these comments are from 2ch...

still i see that love plus is pretty popular!

Married mostly cost a bomb, but that only happen when you intend to make a party or celebration. At my place, you mostly can get married without cost you arms and legs. But of course it would be a rude if you not invite your relative and neighbor to came to your marriage party/celebration (not to mention, people might thinking IF you hiding something behind the marriage XD).

Hmmm. Not that 2ch is a great source of commentary.. but, honestly its better then some.. Better then going to a southern baptist church and asking about wether its better to go to hell an burn or find salvation. Seriously, Every developing country has low birth rates... its a sign of developing.. You can see it clearly in demographics. As a population gets more advanced and comfortable.. birth rates drop. Just in japan's case its dropped into the negative. WHich on this planet of too many people.. Honestly don't think thats a bad thing.

One example of this trend is visible in america.. The citizens that have college, good paying jobs.. etc. the hallmarks of good living as it were. Have fewer children.. then the people who are either fresh immigrants.. On welfare.. etc.. etc. They tend to have more children.. are less educated.. etc. I know I use etc a lot.. I just don't really need to type out all thats obvious.

I personally have never been to Japan, but what I have heard from my family especially my grandfather who was in the Navy for 40 years says that the Japanese people are some if not the hardest working people he has ever met. My family has many friends in Japan and they swear by it. They love Japan and so do I. As far as economy I am led to believe Japan has one of the best considering the rest of the world. The yen is stronger then the dollar. It really comes down to the overall moral of the country and it seems to me that every Japanese person or picture captured by this website has been living life to the fullest. I love Japan and I would be honored to live there one day.

I find this one interesting..
#q#Getting married and having kids is happiness?#q#
to me it is a happiness, a dream to have wife and kids. A path to the next level in your life, try something what you don't do when your single times. I love babysitting children, imo it can teach you to love and care. Sometimes I lost my temper too.. ^^;

Well, I am hopefully one of those immigrants that Japan will need in the future ^_^ Honestly, I see the Japanese government giving more benefits to married people and people that have kids in the near future. Of course, with the economy so bad, I don't know how they can afford it. I also know that getting married and having kids in Japan is very expensive. Unfortunately, in the US, people that have children that aren't married and are using welfare, seem to get rewarded for bad behavior. Anyways, some of the commnets were just too funny ^_^ "The problem is that dolphin waxing feels good" ^_^

It is none of my business, but I simply think Japan is not used to having a low population in the modern-day, so declining birth-rate will scare the government. In the end, the figures will even out.

Hi, i'm new for here and this article is interesting
I don't see the reason for feeding a money sucking worm (wife) jajajaja
I guess the japanese society need learn of other countries and those work schedules that leave no time to spend with family.

Relationships are hard work...especially marriage and having children. But nothing truly worth anything is easy.

As for Japan's population, it's cyclical - over time things swing back and forth...kinda like the global warming nonsense.

Oh boy, I guess Japan will be populated by young foreigners in the next 50 years...

Either he is not that informed...or he would know the real reason...

Based on my experience, women these days have very unrealistic expectations with men.. Most notably the income. The women I've met want to settle down with a rich guy and spend all of eternity in gyms, spas and social gatherings. They even have plans laid out for their 'future' children. And it doesn't get any better. A child growing up with baby sitters or day care centers doesn't sound good at all to me. So yeah.. I hate women who don't make any effort to carve out their own future with their own two hands. They are a disgrace to the female gender.
But of course.. there are also other factors. There could be some personal or extrinsic factors between relationships.

declining population? increasing foreigners? no money no honey?

don't worry japan, you're not alone.
come singapore, say hi to japan.

...seriously, i guess this mr. Robin Lustig is too high up on the tree to smell the sh*t on the ground

I hope the comments from Itai News are from trolls, because if that's reality in Japan, that's extremely sad. I noticed a lot of comments about women only wanting rich, good-looking guys and that they cheat. I hate to break it to those men, but those type of people are everywhere and it's not exclusive to women.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems Japan still has deeply entrenched views on how women should behave. Women who continue working in their late 20's and 30's (let's not even mention above that) are looked down on because they haven't settled down with a man and started having women. Yet men want the women to be independent and not "a money sucking worm". There's a problem there. Also, is there any reason why a couple without much money can't just fill out a marriage certificate and go on about their lives? There's always a way to get around an expensive wedding.

That being said, I'm not too worried about Japan's population decline, but I'm certainly no expert.

Whao thats really crazy but one day i might be going over there and helping because i really love japan me
but i dont see it dieing no time soon.

Easy answers and pop psychology aside, has anyone stopped to consider that the actual math is wrong?

In the early 90's, I read a lot of almanacs and reference which all 'projected' that by 2000, Mexico City would overtake Tokyo as the world's largest metropolitan area. It's almost 2010, and not only is Tokyo still on top, but Mexico City is now third (behind Seoul) when it used to be second.

Population statistics just aren't all that easy to predict.

Phew! Well, this article has stirred up a hornets nest! I've read Robin Lustigs' article, and although he puts forward a logical-sounding and strong case, he is WRONG!!

Keeping to the points mentioned in this post, It seems he is most incorrect (and seems to want to cause the most bother) when it comes to our own otaku society. He just doesn't seem to understand what it is to have a hobby. I bet he doesn't even take the dog for a walk at weekends - no, he gets his wife to do that with the kids, so that he can write his poorly researched articles.

Perhaps what he meant was that Japan may be losing its' 'Nihon Identity' by using more influences from outside, in exactly the same way that England is. The only difference is England has, for decades now, copied snippets of other countries (America, Australia, France, Germany, etc) and stayed with them, even when they don't work for us. Whereas, the Japanese has embraced ideas, inventions and so on from around the world and made it better! So he would be wrong again, but it would make more sence of his article.

Mr. Lustig has been to Japan, but has only sampled a very small fraction of its' culture, and observed a minute proportion of the people there. Had he seen more than that which he did, or had he explored a small percentage of the wealth of first-hand information on the internet in context, he would have realised that the points he has raised is what Japan IS - adaptable, embracing, reliable and full of variety.

By the way, he does mention a few other countries which have an even worse marriage rate than Japan, which kind of throws any argument or opinion of his staight into the waste bin!

Sorry for the rant, but as an Englishman, I felt it best be known that we don't all have the same opinion as this journalist.

"import 17 million foreign workers over the next 40 years" yeah, job in japan for me please.

I really wouldn't say it's anime / manga and/or pornography's fault for declining marriages in Japan, I believe it's more of a job/income thing. Japan is a really small country with and is overpopulated (for a country of that size) and as we can see from photos almost every inch of Japan is covered with buildings and such but there isn't enough room to accommodate enough housing and business buildings to have everyone in Japan working and have their own living space, thus bringing us to wives want a husband that makes more money then the average Japanese business man makes because most of then quit after marriage and have kids, their not going to just suddenly get use to not having the income they use to have and on top of that they will be having a child soon, so there's more expenses.

It's not like here in Canada or the U.S.A where there's an abundant amount of places to apply and to work at and still have enough room to have our own housing and such luxury that we take for granted day after day, but if we were to say that North America had a land mass and population like Japan does and vise-versa we'd be the ones of target for this article.

It would be a shame that the Japanese people(genes) and the Japanese culture just vanished because Japanese aren't having enough kids or because of mass immigration.

P.S. I think Japanese immigration policies are fine as they are(the best in the world).

There is a very interesting report by Current's Vangaurd titled Japan: Robot Nation. you can find it on Hulu, and the Current News site. I recommend it, it talks about Japans situation with people becoming more career orientated rather than family.

I agree you you JCP, I wouldn't mind seeing the States taking some advise on that topic especially.

The decline of the population has nothing to do with games or manga. Life has become a hell due to taxes and incompetent idiots in Parliament.

-My partner is Hatsune Miku. I would do anything for her and we are thinking of having kids. lol
i agree that england is a country of NEETS and i live thier

"How's this(Reality Love Plus) for REALITY!" XD Thought most of their comments were really incredible and funny.
Seems some members here are on fire reading those comments, this is cyber space and most comments on cyber space are usually exaggerated and a lie.

I think Japan declining in population in the future is a false assumption, even with statistics it is still an assumption, a single choice affects ones own future and there is an infinite number of choices a person can make, even when considering all the other available options there will still be a mass amount of other options available and options that didn't come into mind when sorting them all out. Infinity Series!

Year 2050? Last time I heard, several years ago there was a hype about the world ending in 2012.

Japan I'm coming to save you! jokes :P but yeah I love games an anime but I still plan to find someone an get married and have kids possibly, I guess society is just really different between here and Japan but in General marriage is on the down and divorce rates are so high so people don't want to even try anymore it's too much work and you can get hurt easily.

Sounds like Robin is Japan bashing to me.
Where did he get the sources from anyway?

Sure, Japan has a few NEETS, but England also have a dozen of NEETS too lol (I was one of them XD)

Indulging on Manga is like being immersed in a video game or book. Why not point out the Japanese as if they're the cause? D:

To be honest, his like that Rita Skeeter from Harry Potter...

-Solution is simple - make it so that anime and manga characters can get pregnant.
answer: Nagisa of Clannad AF was pregnant.

The following comment is by no way racist nor discriminatory at all. I just happened to be on my "(fail) comedian day" =P

Big Mendou: Japan's decreasing population.
Belligerents: Japanese women and Japanese man.
Possible causes: animu and mango, eroge, videogames, 2D waifus, NEET, George W. Bush, Lemann Brothers, 20 years of economic problems, Hideaki Anno, Sony, Tao Aso, Gainax, Shonen Jump, Hatsune Miku, pantsu, dolphin caring equipment.

Then, I present to you the issues that cause the whole mendou:

Issue #1: In Japan, EVERYTHING that is NOT tech stuff, is NOT cheap. That includes waifu and baby.
Issue #2: most of Japanese women are stuck with housewife mentality. (For Christ sake, we're in the friggin' 21st century! Globalization! Gender equality! And yada yada.)
Issue #3: most of Japanese men have a inferiority complex respecting the money they earn, their jobs, their looks, hobbies and are kind of afraid of women's attitude towards them. (In other words, too meek. Or, to be more precise, they have no cojones.)
Issue #4: the vast majority of Japanese people are stuck in a traditionalist mentality of "no-gaijin!". (With such a closed society, it is difficult to "truly" make Japan a country open to Western influence.)

So, my solutions to these issues are:

Solution to issue #1: I can't think of anything about, 'cause waifus and babies are expensive anywhere, anywhen, and anytime, but it would be good to make food cheaper in Japan... somehow. (Specially the meat; it's too damn expensive!)
Solution to issue #2: if they don't want to marry Japanese guys 'cause they're "poor" or kimoi/kimochiwarui 'cause they like animu and mango, very well, then! There are plenty of gaijin man wanting to marry Japanese women! (J/K, but it would be good for them not to always buy all stuff by Prada, Gucci or Chanel.)
Solution to issue #3: we, Gaijin Men, have to brainwash-- I mean, teach Japanese men to be more macho with square cojones if they don't want the above solution to happen (and if they want to grown economically.)
Solution to issue #4: we have to brainwash all of Japanese society in general to make them more open to gaijin people and investment, and to make the three previous solutions possible. (I still think that meat is too damn expensive...)

Anyone, be free to 'corrict' me or to add some issues/solutions I may have forgotten/skipped. Thank you very much for listening (or reading, or decode.... whatev'.)

I dunno if I buy that women have too high standards of men arguement being the one and only reason. Seems like a good way for male otaku to whine. Especially if you look at from a female otaku's point of view. Having kids even in the US often times means both the husband and wife working. Usually, not always, housekeeping and child rearing leans more heavily on the women. You know what that means for the female otaku? Kiss your anime goodbye forever. By the time you have a breath for your own interests you're long gone from the anime world. Its an extreme way of looking at the situation but still if you've got any brains in your head it's going to cause some pause for reflection. Reflect too long and you're past child bearing years. I think with a rise in education of women you're getting more women thinking real hard about having kids, add in the 2D love, expenses and well life and you've got a birthrate problem.

On the other side, it's also tourism that can fund the country. I seriously hope it's still in its popular culture by the time I immigrate. The otaku might kill it, but from another perspective, can be seen as the helping hand. What if there was no special culture at all. Japan would lose its fame, even less people would visit Japan, no?

Also note that from time to time you see those rooms full of merchandise(@ JP otaku rooms, for example). What if they'd spent more money on realistic stuff, rather than a collection? Just some speculation, but I don't think the country will ever end anyway. It's more 'different' than this British guy thinks.

And about Japanese women....yeah they indeed have too high standards, but as other said; Not everything has to be done the expensive way.

Although I watch a lot of anime and buy anime merchandise and everything 2D, I personally would like to be in a relationship with a 3D person... Problem is I'm shy and only want someone who understands my hobby. Two bad combination really... I'm also a little worried about how much the girl expects of me, just like what is mentioned about Japanese women expecting a huge salary.

. . . jus talk like Micky Mouse, high squeaky voice and the GF says "Oh bookindian you so cute, do it more!" and it get eroge fast!! :D

2D partners won't cheat on you, are easier to take care and always smile, I believe one of the main reasons is that mostly of us(Geeks/Otaku/Neets) are ugly .... and we don't have confidence in ourselves so we are scared of getting rejected by reality(3D girls) T^T it's a sad true but at least we can have 2D girls to comfort us!.

Personally I weep for those ignorant, illiterate people who give birth to more than half a dozen of kids at the cost of everyone's taxes knowing (or maybe not) that they won't be able to give them a proper home and education.

If they aren't economically and mentally mature to get married, there's no reason to do so.

"Reality does not want to deal with me you idiot."
I've had days like that too. Can't say ether way on anime/manga/games effect on a declining population though?

As I read 2ch's comments list, I really have to agree. But blaming anime/games/manga is just pure B.S.
The thing I blame would be that people are unwilling to compromise that they want in a partner.
Men want an cute/sexy/perfect/loyal/etc wife, but no human is perfect, so you can forget it and same
for women, women want a rich hushand that makes tons of money, but not everyone can make the minimum 100K USD!!!)
Sad to say, but I foresee Japan's population will continue to decline, of this I have no doubt.

LOL at the Love Plus comments. hahah. that's pure gold. I personally have no idea why japan's in that kind of situation. I can see where the comments about women are coming from and also about that theory that japanese men can't adapt easily to a flexible society. I guess it just boils down to culture though and from what I've seen, the Japanese are probably the ones who stick closest to their culture compared to other asian races which probably makes it hard for them to adjust to the new things in society. The ones that are able to are all good but what about those that are very traditional?

This is just all too depressing. Japanese women are one of the most beautiful women in the world. I don't see why they're not getting married at all and having kids at all.

Eh, I don't really think it's the fault of anime/manga/games that there's population decline. It's characteristic of the more "developed" countries that the population growth will decrease and the bulk of the population will shift towards the older ages as the current population grows older and choose not to have children/etc.

Another example could easily be found in Europe where lots of countries are experiencing a similar trend.

well, you can easily just save up the money by NOT buying stuff (lol). But REGARDLESS,

-wow BBC, blame video games, manga, and anime huh. Isn't that better than kids killing each other on the streets (look at Chicago man... jesus christ...)
-isn't marriage expensive in teh US too (unless you do it in Vegas, which is again, stupid)
-why marry to propagate... That is a rather stupid biology lesson.

I love the pic though... GJ kids!

日本は、よくも悪くも製造業で生計を立てる、主な男性のライフスタイルなので、人とのコミュニケーションが他国に比べて苦手な部類かもしれないね。
機械と向き合う機会やゲームやフィギュア、その他メディアを触れ合うことが多くなるんだけど、弊害としておこっているのは、リアルな人間と面と向かって話すことが、いつの間にか苦手になってしまったかもしれない。上の写真でも友達の顔なんて見ないしねｗ
ところが、結婚というフェーズになると、機械やメディアとは全く異質なリアルな女性と向き合うことをしないといけないわけｗｗ

それが、日本の男性がとても苦手としてるわけです(涙笑）

It's pretty foolish to blame games and anime and I'd say that it's pretty easy to see that it's a pour article.
Although many Otakus afraid of engaging women should watch "Densha Otoko", or in english: "Train Man". It's the answer on how to pick up women. If you're not up for watching the movie here's how you get your dream girl:
Ask one of your friends to drink a small bottle of alcohol, just enough to get the drunken smell. Then select your target in a not so crowded train cart. Make your buddy approach her and ask him to say weird things like " Touch my burning fanny", or "Hey gorgeous, I'm in heat, wraauw!" Then you swoop in like a prince from a fairytale and rescue the poor girl (and make sure to slap your buddy around a bit to make it look real). She loves you for saving her, and marries you. You both live happily ever after. Yep there's your answer!

既に散々突っ込まれているけど、記者は日本のオタ比率を高く見積もりすぎている。
っと言うか実際の割合を調べずに脳内妄想だけで書いている印象。
ここ数年のマンガやゲームの売り上げを見ていればこんな電波妄想を展開する事は無かったと思うんだが。5点。

Hmm, can't say I fully disagree with the comments above and I'm female XD
Wouldn't mind being part of the 17 million foreigners ^-^~

"money sucking worm" @__@ Is that how some men see what wives are? Do people not know how to choose a person of quality and strong personal traits and character? Someone who is your greatest supporter and best friend with guns blazing??? I'm somewhat floored. I do, however, know that a lot of pop culture in Japan feeds into the Japanese male's libido and escapism. This is probably why there are (from a gender perspective) many male Hikkomori. They can get everything they need and just not have to deal with another soul which is sad because a great part of life is relationship. I am all for being an otaku but when one wants to pull from the 2D and have intimate relations like they would or SHOULD with the 3D living, breathing human being...there are issues, serious ones!

17 million foreign workers..........if that includes architects/designers, I sense an opportunity >:-D

No kids for us :P not ready, don't think will ever be ^^;; Am pretty happy with our 2 furmonkeys -- cats :P and dollfie beauties which won't ever grow up or older ^^;

In the next 5 years, one of the 17 million foreign workers would be me!

Japan, here I come!

In today's world of technology and stuff, society itself is to blame for most of the well... problems in uh.. society. Living in today's world, no matter what country that may be, conforming to what society "says" you should do is something people do their entire lives. Do you want to know who "most" (read:NOT ALL) of the people are that are living happily in life? The people who find that burning passion they have, and follow it until they've reached their dreams, whether it falls within society's "accepted" boundaries or not. Danny's posted articles about all this before. Most people just don't have the courage to truly do that. Many times because of the "boundaries of normal" already set by society.

Also, the media is essentially worthless anyway. News is always the same. Sad as it is, money controls this world. The goal of media is maximize ratings in order to make more money. Negative stuff brings in ratings. Maybe because so many people are so unhappy with life and it makes them feel not so alone? I don't know. Complaining is almost all the media is capable of doing. Think about it for a second. IDK about other countries (I'm in the U.S.) but easily 80-90% of the media I see is negative.

I really went off on a tangent, wtf >.< As for the Japanese population problem. I do think the otaku world of anime/manga/etc. may be an underlying problem with Japanese males in society, but really. How many of those extreme otakus are there? Certainly not enough to drastically be lowering Japan's birth rate. My personal opinion on the matter: Let the population decline anyway. I am in no way some crazy environmentalist but, honestly, it doesn't take an environmentalist to see that this planet's resources are already being stretched beyond its limits. The LAST thing any country needs to be worrying about is maintaining (or god forbid) increasing the population.

Lastly. Why can't people just accept what hobbies are? I am no otaku per se; I do enjoy anime and manga, and 2D girls are great. I'm an extremely introverted person when around women or new folks in general, but it has nothing to do with otaku stuff. Nobody would even know I'm into otaku stuff unless I told them anyway. I fit the bill of a perfectly 'normal" looking 22 yr old. To blame the issues of Japanese society and Japanese males on anime and manga is unfair.

I sympathize with some of the hardcore otakus in Japan, though. Anyone notice that no matter where in the world you are, 90% of the "problems" and "social outcasts" are those people into the hobbies that the majority aren't into? In many cases once again, it's society's fault. Yes, many otakus are generalized as the nerds and ugly people because of society. Do you blame them for staying away from reality? Even if you're an otaku that appears perfectly normally in your society (like myself--minus being an total otaku), you're already labeled by society and put into a group that is usually hammered for doing something they like.

IDK. Maybe I'm crazy. Personally, I've never had a "true" girlfriend, though I've had a few people who did want to date me. I do dream of marrying one day and having a small family, but I'm in no rush. The main reason I don't date for the most part? I've met essentially zero people who have an interest in Japan/Asia/etc., and prefer not waste my time with people who don't. That is one of the things I want from a potential partner, and it's something I don't mind waiting for. My point? Otaku-ish stuff has nothing to do with me not dating people. It may be a part of me being rather a little socially awkward, but that's it. And I think blaming it for Japan's societal problems is very unfair.

ここのスレッドの関心の高さでもわかるけど、日本の将来は、印象で左右されてるかもしれないとはいえ、これからどうなるかとても気になるところ・・・10年後はどうなってるかな？

Wow there are alot of interesting comments! Personally I agree with the concept of crappy media pushing the negative. I am 40, married to a wonderful woman with 2 children and we all love anime and manga. We are all capable of interacting with anyone around us in society. I have been a fan of anime since the 70's and it never interfered with my ability to date. I think that england should worry about themselves, and not about japan, they also happen to be an island country. I guess its also easier to point out someone else's fault then deal with you're own. Silly people....lol.

The "default world", or physical reality has always been harsh and unforgiving. Humanity has had to deal with making a living since humanity arrived on the planet. Men and women lived in villages, and had children before marriage was sometimes considered. 2D/3D girls??? It's only been in the last 500 or so years since the printing press created alternate worlds that the global populace could escape to. It's only been 233 years since the concept of a modern democracy where John Q. Public can have the pursuit of happiness.

Now we live in a truely global society where residents of one patch of earth can pick on the residents of another patch of earth half a globe away. In another 500 years are we going to even be "Otaku"? Without dipping into the SF concept of direct neural connections, future societies are going to be completely interefaced with augmented reality, virtual reality and physical reality.

Females in general have fretted over "breeding stock" since the harsh village days. I've always been of the opinion that as long as the bills get paid, and there is food on the table, that is qualification for marriage. Love is such a wildcard, I don't talk it up much.

What it boils down to is this: Humanity will continue. As for Japan, who knows? How many races and societies have disappeared since Europe conquered the Americas? It'll be up to future anthropoligists to sort out.

needing 17 million foreign workers!? count me in
yoroshiku onegaishimasu!

i can live off 3.5million yen, the marrige can be a liability but the 2d reality will be best for me...

While I was still definite on my Computer Science major, I used to think like this- I don't need a mate when I can throw myself into my research with artificial intelligence.

I'm looking at an international relations major, and a mate seems more plausible now.

I think this problem is not restricted to Japan but to all developed countries.

haha, the one comment about "girls in games wont cheat on us", coudlnt stop laughing at that one!

Other than that, I think its just a change in society. Because women want to be a part of the work force longer, the naturally do not want to get married and stop working. I know that I don't have any plans for a looonnngggg time^^;

I'm in the camp of people who thinks that a lower population is probably a blessing in disguise.

This has got me thinking, though, about how population and economy are intertwined. As far as I know, the 20th century saw the quickest growth of population and industry ever. Rapid changes are always unstable, whether in a country or in a pitri dish, but for some reason a lot of people looked at that growth as though it would never end. It was actually impossible for it to stay that way. Now we're just feeling the systemic backlash as things start to pull back to equilibrium. The way I see it, it's kind of like organizing your closet: things get worse before they get better.

late but... ALL HAIL 2D LOL

痛いニュースにThe problem is that dolphin waxing feels goodなんてコメントのってないだろ。
捏造してんじゃねーよ。意図的に糞コメントばかり抽出してるし、お前は日本への偏見を助長したいだけなのか？

I'll have to say, Men of Japan are quite sexist, or so as their comment have shown. Though I find the merit in some of them. Woman do cheat on Men, and there is also Men that cheats on woman. It's like playing a dating sim game. Once you get tired of the game/characters, you move on to a different game. Maybe my view is jaded because I do not live in Japan, but yes, it is quite expensive to live there isn't it? I heard the food cost and such can be quite the money black hole. Call me a romantic, but doesn't that make it all the sweeter to go to that extra mile for that speical person?

Anyway, it's showing clearly how the man of the Japan are feeling, but I'm also interested on what the woman of the population is feeling as well.

I also find it odd, and maddening, when they refer to woman as a money black hole because they quit their job once they marry, since it is quite their own fault. They hate woman who holds a job because they believe woman should rare children, but at the same time Men can not afford them NOT to work or can barely make ends meet if they don't. Contradicting isn't it?

it all boils down to this: when a person is happy of what they have, just leave them alone.

btw have people considered that society itself might have a problem, and not otakus?

Hmm that explains why I saw alot of homosexuals when I was there in july.

First Phase of Human Extinction Project ? Dunno who plan that though...

yatta! this is good stuff!!!

if only you'd live here in the Philippines. People don't care if they can be responsible in having a child... One example of this are the homeless or the squaters. They don't care if they have morethan 10 offsprings even if they don't even know where they'd get there food for the day. waaah!

HOLY CRAPPERS... 3.76million yen just to get married, I can understand why most would not want to. I had an issue with my ex-girlfriend when she wanted our soon to be wedding to cost a little over 100,000 yen.

Yeah..