Lolita Culture

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Yikes!
Sorry guys. Looks like the questionmark on the end of the title causes problems.
What I always do is type out a long comment in a text file before posting or copy the text to the clipboard if something goes wrong. Sorry!

Where's my "AWESOME" option? :(

This one kind of reminds me of violent games leads to school shootings. So I guess I feel the same way about the violent game thing and how I feel is that hopefully the person isn't an idiot and they know what is right from wrong. So watch loli animes but dont go out being a pedophile. I do get annoyed when a lot of the new animes come out and they have a lot of loli themes but sometimes I dont mind watching a few like Sky Girls. So please lets have some common sense so we can all enjoy animes, games, movies, and anything that might influence you to do bad things.

I don't really know what the correct answer would be, as it is about matter of tastes and personal views about morals and limits to behavior.

I have never been interested in loli and I find it sometimes repulsive and aggravating (especially about kids -yes, kids, not mature enough adolescents- in really light clothing, if not nude and having intended suggestive poses. The question is that are they suitable for adult play? I would say "no!" in a firm way).

Things like eroge and ero doujin can be harmless as well as a channel for unleashing destructive fetishes with an abuse component.
It's always the same kind of debate, are they used to suppress destructive impulses or are they encouraging them? Of course, removing "hazardous material" to the ones with a fragile mind would be the best thing to do, but it is not realistic and it impedes on freedom.

Violence is really a problem in this world and I fear it is getting worse if not sometimes out of control.

i think everyone is overreacting.

It's a part of human nature for people to over-react on the slightest provocation. It's even more so normal for people to misunderstand(sp?) that which is different. For example, Kodomo no Jikan manga being dropped by distributors from a release in the States; due to mounting pressure and a certain scene in the later chapters (you know which one I'm talking about, for the rest of you, don't let your imaginations get too carried away).

As to topic of loli being bad for society or fueling criminal acts; does the entire goth subculture insight people to commit murder? Have video games made *you* more likely to commit acts of violence? Did Tokyo Drift and Initial D have you taking your ride to the nearest mountain pass or country road to... actually, forget that last one... I couldn't help myself. Don't give me that look, you know you wanted to be the drift king too. :P

Bottom line, people are always gonna get carried away with such subjects; but looking back at history, western superstitions about Japan aren't as bad as they used to be.

edit: good idea changing the topics name danny

By the way Danny, with the eroge site you gave us, I fled to the "Boin" part without shame or further ado. ^^;;;

"Loli" simply referring to a young girl, I think it's misleading and harmful to the otaku culture to lump all of these together.

Compared to western nations, Japan has a tremendously high amount of grown women who have extremely youthful appearances. To suggest that these adults cannot be perceived sexually--or that some one who does is perverted--is insulting to them as well as their mates. Certainly a depiction of such a person in drawn form is no more perverse than the content covered.

There's also the notable cultural difference that (especially among the otaku culture) it's recognized that men can appreciate the "cute" aesthetic, as well as simply the expression of youthful femininity. Any father who smiles when he sees his daughter with flowers in her hair can understand those. Along those lines, there are plenty of works that feature youthful characters with no sexual content or overtones.

While there is some overlap in the works that have been created, those concepts are separate issues from the sexualization of children or teenagers in media. Japan does have a problem with ephibophilia (and, I understand, a larger problem with pedophilia than is let on by statistics), but these "loli" characters are not related to that simply by the virtue of being lolis, absent any sexual content, overtones, or presentation.

i aldo like 2D loli but not that far extreme to rape some lil girl ..but as Danny said i also been noticing that loli is now in the ota-culture more often but still harmless because we all know what is wrong and what is good and we all know the consequences

Don't see anything wrong with 2D drawings of underaged girls. Like what everyone else is saying, it's all a matter of preference, and people tend to overreact over things that they fail to understand correctly. Blaming loli animes/mangas for pedophile crimes is like blaming videogames for shooting. Better this than committing actual acts of pedophilia. If it's considered distasteful or morally offensive to depict underaged children in artworks, perhaps they should've condemned and burned those Renaissance artist who drew such depictions on canvas centuries ago.

LOL, I think it depends on the person itself... I like cute girls in animes and manga and such but I will definitely not find any interest in 3D loli... I don't think its any harm, it all depends on the person... Some doujins I've seen are pretty weird, depicting small girls doing "LOL" stuff, I dont think real girls would want to do these kind of things and definitely find it not pleasureful... Once again, I have to say it all depends on the person, if he DOES go out and attack small kids because of some doujin or eroge that destroyed his mind, then it's his own fault cause he started reading doujins and playing eroge in the first place... What I'm trying to say is loli content is just in the realm of fantasy and not to be put into the real world... It all depends on the person, I don't really have an answer and I think does have such thoughts off doing things to little kids, than that person should just keep it to him or herself...

BOKU WA RORIKON

from my point of view, lolicons are into 2d girls that has the physical of an underage(despite the age,pettanko?) and a 2d uderage character

that is different with pedophiles which has tendency to "attack" REAL underage.

loli art is cute. Its when its sexualy sugestive when it becomes an issue with people. So the question is do you put the same laws on it as we have against child pornography?

i don't know.

Loli just isn't accepted in society which is why people react to it so strongly. I personally stopped caring as loli has popped up everywhere in anime and is now a more common site than before. People who are pedophiles tend to have a defect biologically in their brain or somehow raised in an environment that has affected his/her thinking. I doubt most pedophiles in the world watch anime.

Sexual Disorder is not a casuality for Loli... have taste for little girls or mature womens won't make u the incontrolable desire of sex.

I heard that most of sexual disorder are created from another disorder, and 90% from childrens problems. I'm not that fan of Loli, and I think it isn't right, but put blame on it it's too much...

They attract because they find the characters cute, that would be it.

We can't just base on some individual view and justify whole. I personally don't like loli but it doesn't mean that other people who like it be consider as sick or pervert. I think it wrong to set up a standard, if said so apply to where I live (US) we may consider a place full of sex and violence base on the insane amount of graphic on TV and movie.

A lot of misguided people out there by the looks of things.

I just take it as another one of those 'unique' cultures of Japan. I suppose people can just leave it as it is if they feel that it's 'disgusting' or even 'offending' to them, but to justify their disapproval by linking it with crime isn't right at all.

I think Danny, you can just go ahead reporting whatever loli news you want on your blog. It's your blog anyway ^^ and let the audience decide whether to read on or not. I mean, you can't satisfy everyone's interest right?

O-okay... Who ever is intrested in this "Loli" stuff is weird.

I believe it is a human right to be able to fap to whatever you feel you must.

I feel the lolicons of otaku culture aren't the same kind of pedos you see having their HDs seized by the FBI and getting life. It's just another, among many other, element of otaku culture. You can have your maids, nurses, miko, and your lolis too. Whatever you feel your moe is.

On the other hand, there is a disconnect between memes of soceity and that of otaku culture. Once you take such fetishes IRL, people have cause to worry. By itself though harmless.

Finally, I think the relation between lolicon and real world attacks is streched at best. The same idiots blamed Doom and CS for school shootings. Loli is just the most apparent thing to direct their anger and disgust towards.

Well I guess i have to blame Char Aznable for making this A trend..

To me, i find Young Girls Cute, I am not attracted to them sexually..

I really dunno with the others if it is a preference or some fetish though i really dunno what to say about this if its harmless or not.. I just Don't Wanna See any Kids ruin their lives or dying because of this..

Just my two cents..

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/sephiroth00/phortsyan/loliconfaq.jpg

i have to admit that i love and has a fetish for 2D lolis and i myself is and preferred to be called a lolicon (better than to be called a pedophile)

imo, the lolita culture is pretty much harmless ^^

"loli doesn't do evil things, people do"

i agree that this kind of fetish is not new to the otaku culture and it only came into light when the otaku culture started to get noticed

I've said it once, and I'll say it again.

ロ・リ・イ・タ！

僕はロリコン！

ロ・リ・イ・タ！

僕はアブないお兄さん．．．

Also, pedo content has been in anime for a while. Some of the very first anime porn was loli porn. It's just that now people are actually paying attention to it.

Also: http://youtube.com/watch?v=j2UXUSy3tsA

Also x2: http://www.mistakesofyouth.com/megu-fanservice.jpg

So yeah, it's nothing new. Pedophiles have been around since the dawn of time, after all.

I like the comments in here so far. Mostly intellegent people who take the words right out of my mouth.

And yes i'm not embarrased to say it but i'm also a loli fan.

As a lot of you already said, it's better to be called a loli/lolicon than a pedophile.

There's a difference between a culture and a real crime.

The culture so far in my opinion is just art. Loli is art. What is so harmful about art? Plus it's a big money maker so far (Note all the Moetan merchandise that is selling in Japan which i'm eager to get my hands on once it reaches the states as soon as late December).

TV Anime like the contraversal Kodomo No Jikan isn't just loli, but it also has it's positive sides, one of which where Aoki got Mimi Usa to go back to school. What is harmful about a teacher encouraging his students to go back to school? And i saw episode 6 today, that has no loli whats so ever and has got to be the saddest episode so far. I felt pretty sad for Reiji and Rin after i saw episode 6.

As for those who find loli creepy, i hope you do your homework soon. As said so many times here already, it is harmless and it's just 2D art.

Lastly i've heard a couple of times recently that the purpose of Loli and Eroge.....etc, etc, was created to avoid real crimes in Japan.

I have been thinking about the same question lately. Imo lolicon are pedo. Here is the definition for lolicon from wikipedia:

"Lolicon (ロリコン, rorikon?) is a slang portmanteau of the phrase "Lolita complex". The phrase is a reference to Vladimir Nabokov's book, Lolita, in which a much older man becomes sexually obsessed with a twelve-year-old girl. In Japan, the term is used to describe an attraction to girls below the age of consent, or an individual attracted to such a person. Outside Japan, the term most often refers to a genre of manga and anime where childlike female characters are depicted in a sexualized manner or engaged in sexually explicit acts. The equivalent term for the sexualization of or attraction to young boys is shotacon."
Ok, I think nothing wrong with thinking certain 2D girls are cute ( even in real life, there are a lot cute girls and boys err.) but certain Anime just gone too far. 萝莉的时间， Loli's Time. I saw one episode and I could not continue. It's just wrong that the show has grade 3 girls running around doing and saying provocative and sexual things.
Some people refer this as another “strange" Japanese Culture. But that's just wrong.

Oh and

"Moe (萌え, Moe? /mo'e/, pronounced "mo-eh" literally "budding", as with a plant) is a Japanese slang word originally referring to fetish for or love for characters in video games or anime and manga. "

therefore, Moe does not equal Lolicon.

I can understand why lolicons and pedos are often linked, but I really don't think it's a cause for concern.

Lolis are cute because their "cute" characteristics are highly caricatured - eyes, cheeks, voice, etc. I believe it's a play on our protective instincts, and on our desire for things with cute characteristics (soft toys, dolls, etc).

And too many people are taking its definition out of context - in the anime context, I believe lolicon refers to a person who likes loli anime characters (and here, "like" isn't even really well-defined) - linking it to its contextual meaning in Lolita (sexual attraction and obsession) is too far a stretch.

I'm a lolicon, love every single one of my loli anime ^^ but I find most girls IRL around that age to be pretty detestable, sometimes in terms of looks, mostly in terms of behaviour...

Probably the only people I can say are cute on the level of lolis are infants and toddlers. If your mind is wandering where I think it is then I think you're a far bigger threat to humanity ;-)

Nothing wrong about Lolita Culture/loli or wat ever, wrong is the people who abuse it. I personally like 2D girl(loli) because they are cute.

I don't think loli anime has much to do with child rape...
Whenever I watched a loli anime, and then seeing a real life little kid within the same day, I never viewed those two beings as the same...

I guess it's because of the culture clash.
Japanese animation goes for the cute and cuddly art type, while American animations goes for the cool or slapstick funny.

Now for some other questions: Playing violent games makes you a killer or a violent person? I don't think so.

This is not about personal tastes.. it's about commiting crimes based on these tastes.

Not to mention what Danny already said: Real Kids =/= Anime Kids.

And here's some more questions: Would you be more suspicious about a guy that watches animes or plays games with lolitas, or your local catholic priest?

If lolicons are to be portraied as pedophiles, is it safer for them to be watching lolita animes, or to be completely forbiden from those thus searching for other means to fullfill their "urges".

Yeah, it's a complex issue. It's also a cultural thing... Japan is just more open to everything sex related. But crimes in Japan are still crimes, and statistics show that Japan has a lot less Child Abuse crimes than US or other western countries.

In my personal opinnion, things turns people on and off are personal, and shouldn't really matter as long as they don't hurt others.

It would be far more productive to try to understand what triggers a child rapist mind, then try to randomly put the blame on something you "think" is the cause... like that moron who tries to blame games for school shooting cases and stuff.

ok.. heres a theory.. that otaku and others that make the loli... didn't quite get the girls when they were younger(or even now...>_

The thing is, lolicon and girls in 2D are just as sensual and sexual as adult girls in real life.

Real life girls are not like that. One is pure fantasy through and through, while one is real.

I think real girls are cute and I like hanging around them, but I never saw them as objects of sexual desire.

So normal art is fine and chibi art is fine, but loli isn't?

Loli is just a mix of the two. It achieves cuteness while still having some level of seriousness.

Besides, it's just animations on a screen. Do you turn pedo from watching Disney movies? If so, I think Loli anime is the least of your worries--your Psychiatric bills will be a little closer to the top of that list.

As for me, I just don't feel right viewing loli pics. To me, live photography or anime (hentai), it's still an underaged little girl. That's how I see it, regardless of the reasons or culture. Ultimately, it's a personal judgement call.

Cyruz, I'm pretty sure the attention is basically split between the general cuteness and loli characters and the more hardcore, sexual types. To me, complaining about totally clean loli is total nonsense. Though I can understand if people are repulsed by the actually sexy types.

As you probably know from some of my comments, i find loli stuff disturbing!
Its fine when theyre shown as innocent, cutesy figures, but as soon as theyre sexualised, it becomes very dodgy indeed. Statistically, it probably doesnt do much harm to Japanese society, but its encouraging feelings amongst people that fancying kids is ok, and in some cases, preferable to girls of legal age.

A prime example of this is the game/ dvd/ adult shop Lammtarra in Akiba.
We started at the 8th floor and worked our way down. Saw some really dodgy porno stuff like scat, bondage, bukkakke, S&M, but on the 2nd floor, there was a video of a male schoolteacher tickling an unsuspecting young (5-ish) girl. The sound of kids laughter in a place like that made me feel ill. There was a proper display and a TV for it. I was more shocked than all the well dodgy stuff i saw earlier!
Stuff like that would get the store in a heapload of trouble just for selling it.

So yeah - loli is ok, but not when its sexualised or eroticised!

Have a desire to see a anime/photobook about a 12 years old girl dressing in tiny little cloths is freaking scary.
Is like drugs. a lot of people smokes weed, but some of them will be not satisfied in only smokes weed. They wiil search for something strong. Is like with those animes. Not at all will be a freak, but a small part will be.

If this isn't a big problem? Well, maybe the high suicide rate, and the low birth rate is.

Get a life. Drop the pantsu thing. Go find a real woman. Have a family and save the Japanese people from extintion.

It seems many people loosely associate ecchi and hentai with loli as well, giving loli a really bad name -_-

Not liking ecchi/hentai loli is not quite the same thing as not liking loli in general. "Loli" refers to the child-like characteristics of (usually underaged) anime characters. Ecchi refers to the characteristics that play on sensuality and sexuality. Hentai is outright pornographic depiction.

Liking loli is not the same thing as liking ecchi and hentai. It's infuriating when ignorant people clump the 3 people and automatically associate the 3.

Oh great, another classic battle between 2 differing views....
This is essentially the same with the GTA controversy that arose just a little while ago! One side says it does influence ppl, the other says the opposite... sigh...
Well IMO i dont think it has an influence at all, considering that the Us stats was much higher than Japans. If anything we should instead give more loli stuff to NA so that less real kids get abused. I honestly feel bad for the kids that are abused all over the world but i dont think the loli culture has much, if any impact on the situation. Just like video games!

That was an excellent post btw, and I think it's great for people to talk about this.

Personally, I don't think loli characters who are portrayed with otherwise adult characteristics, such as breasts and a very female figure bear much resemblance to normal children, especially considering that such characters are usually done in a very anime style, huge eyes etc.

In this case one should be concerned about having a fetish for ridiculously cute drawings of people who don't ultimately resemble humans much. Cute doesn't have to be synonymous with paedophiliia.

However, girls in the sky girls series are a different story to my eyes. Although I do not see anything wrong with people with socially unaccepted fetishes, because it's not like you can do something about it. Just because Danny might like lolita characters with no breasts (^^) doesn't mean he will rape small children, in the same way looking at normal women wont make you rape them.

Gah here we go.

I think it does have an influence on some people to an extent. That influence can be a number of things. Loli's effects certainly don't extend to everyone however there are those out there whom it does influence. What the extent of the influence is varies from person to person.

Personally, I see nothing wrong with it as long as it's not taken too far. I am kind of like youself Danny: I get that "kawaii!" vibe of of most loli. If I find it is living and breathing sexual references up and down the span of 25-30 minutes then I usually shut it off.

The market itself- ehhh no comment. Maybe it is something that interests some more than others. Personally I stay out of eroge for the sole fact that I want to remain sane! =).

It's remarkable how some overreact...we're talking about drawings and pictures of fictious characters, made to look cute ...and then all off a sudden you find yourself projected in our "neo-puritanistic-age" where everything that's not on a straight line of conduct is expelled an condemned,out of fear and misinterpretation.
Contradictory you'll say...look around you!!!!
Watching these anime or this loli-art doesn't turn you into a perv...
But trying to obliterate it will accentuate the interest in it and those who produce it will always try to stay into main focus and therefore maybe cross a line or two wich will result in more and more fuss...
What I'm trying to say is that there are borders not to be crossed but don't forget these are just DRAWINGS nothing more...

Stop trying to globalise the world....I'm sending this from an internally torn and ripped apart country, where in this time of globalisation, two comunities(politicians) argue and battle to separate or stay together...and they proned GLOBALISATION ....
soo sad!!

FateT, I guess you got a biased view. If you consider the hugely messed up approach that the media in modern societies have on childhood, adolescence, etc., and transmitting that as a model for their targets, there is already something wrong and rotten in the core and this is not going to improve with time.

Giving loli to offenders will surely make matters worse. Those guys should simply be cut from all possible influence that would feed their ill mind (dream on) and there should be more thoughts on long-term consequences by the very ones conveying images that affect millions of people (TV channel owners and producers).

That is mainly why I totally gave up on TV, since at the very time it turned into a all-goes-randomness-galore vehicle. I know I miss countless good shows, but I never truly regretted it.
I also know that Internet is a nice alternative/bypass of this process and that danger is also great.

Matters of control over things? Highly limited. Sadly.

*since the very time

What I meant by "process" is they way you can obtain your little spark of fetish (the one that will "reveal" it), fulfill your fantasies over time, keep the flame alive and in the worst cases make you ask for more or worse.

If you are able to keep that for yourself, be sane enough (what is "sanity" anyway?), still respect others and the public order, no problem. But if you begin to target innocent people and become an offender/criminal, this is all about an issue that has gone out of hand.

Just know your limits and things should already be fine, my friends. This is all to know.

Talk about a heated debate ^^. For me, it's a two sided coin. Maybe at times it does lead to paedophilia or even worse. But hey, that's human instinct & behaviour to you. But surely all person are not the same?

i just want if watching rugrats is wrong?

lanie-emon, indeed you're right, we are all messed up in own own way, in various degrees.

As for you anti-loli, I feel you should know more of the subject before kitchen-sinking here and now, out of the blue. I am sorry for telling you this (and being rude by the same process), but your pseudo-scientific and extremely subjective heated point of view is completely lacking facts. People won't take you seriously nor even pay you consideration. Please come back with real proofs next time.

*our own

(Sorry for all those typos. I will return to my old calm self after this post too, I promise. ^^;)

Do I like loli? Yes. Do I fap to it? Yes. Do I get aroused by the idea of real kiddie sex? Hell no.

I have a 2D fetish, 3D girls are, as they say, PIG DISGUSTING.

apparently anti-loli knows what real men want. if you don't like T&A...OH MY GOD there must be something wrong with you!!!! FREAK!!! Now go out there and play Halo, play beer pong with your frat buddies , ride your Jeep and listen to Avenged Sevenfold!!! Thats what real men do. Oh yeah, they also chop trees, wrestle alligators and tell their wives to shut up and go back to the kitchen.

/toggle sarcasm off

Its harmless. Just like anything else
(animated, or not) if you let it take control of you and influence your way of thinking then its you who has the problem.

I like watching movies about Nazis, does that make me one?

this discussion is pointless and now I'm pissed at having wasted time writing this.

God bless you all

This is a fun one to have a discussion about ^^.

From a personal perspective I find little attraction to loli and think its disturbing.
However!: I also think lolicon and acts of pedophilia are in no way connected to each other.

I live in a country where there is barely anime doijinshi or erogames, let stand alone loli anime, yet there still is a reasonably high rate of cases that involve pedophilia.

I personally think that lolicon would have no effect on what ever person; pedophiles will stay pedophiles and rape real life little girls and wont be even slightly interested in lolicon.
and persons that like lolicon will most likely not even think of sexual things with real children and like their perfect 2-d girls more.

There is one last thing I'd like to say, personally I think loli stuff sucks, but I think its a form of art and every possible form of art should have freedom to be expressed as long as there are no victims from it (wich again makes loli stuff fit in a society and says real pedophilia should prosticuted because it has victims that are hurt
by it being made).

whats wrong with having sex with little girls !!!! ????

no seriously pedophiles do not become like that because they watch moetan its just because theyr head is messed up thats it.
video games violent or loli animes do not rape assault or kill people people do and most of these people have never watched animes or played video games and even if they did they allready have a predesposition to do these kinds of things so in this case games or animes or movies can be concidered as the triger and not the cause

I still remember when people who liked japanese girls were considered pedophiles...

On the net there are people thta consider IDOLMASTER "another game that appeals to teenage girls or pedophiles" so I feel the anti-loli complex is more widespread than we think...

Moe and loli are different and also in loli there is a strong differnce between a rape eroge and Kodomo no Jikan...
moe/loli "shock" is totallky different for being sexually aroused by loli animation...
moe is moe, sex is sex... and I think people who can't accept/feel this difference got a big problem with their sexuality since it's evident that their are sexually aroused by images that for majority of otakus are just moe and so they condemn anything that is in the cute/moe/loli categories!

the problem is never the media used but more the human who is gonna use the media itself. if it were not for the amazing yet perturbing psychology of human beeing, weapons will stil lhave as only use to hunt for surviving, not killing each other. you can't predict how everyone's gonna interpret his use of a media.

some humans go wild with guns, some go wild with loli :)

hopefully most of them don't go wild on this kind of stuff ;)

you know here in france there was a long debate on how japanese anime are violent and created a generation (mine?) of violence, like all serial killer moves supposedly created some wanabee serial killer...

as we say in france, when the farmer cries out loud because some of his sheeps got eaten by some wolves, don't kill the wolves, kill the sheeps (or the farmer) it'll may solve the problem ;)

(ok i'm from a violent generation :p)

joke appart,

as one of you said it's not because they talk a lot about it that there is a lot of problems of this kind. maybe in our country we don't speak a lot of it on media except when it become obvious

okay, just seriously, do you even feel good when raping someone(or child)?
i guess not.

rapist are just some sick person with sick desire to do sex, there is no connection of it to lolicon.

why blame 1 culture, why not blame society?

i am into loli...only in 2d...

But if a person(read otaku) is into loli i doubt he's attack a girl just because she's underage. Otakus love anime loli-not little real-life girls. Many people said that Michael Jackson was a pedo. I sure as hell doubt that he watched loli everyday. Then again he might have a secret stash:P Back here in SEA, young girls are tricked into the sex trade. And young, i'm talking about 8 years old; it was on Reader's Digest August 2007 issue. Those men that go for the girls, even if the critics say loli causes pedos to form, a large majority of these pedos definitely DO NOT watch anime.
Danny, you once had a news item on REAL loli. Alot of people said it was totally wrong. That i can agree. But as many people said here, loli is loli, and ... pedoes are something else altogether. If everything was lumped together, almost every anime fan in the world would have been a pedo at some point of time is their lives, since many of us watch a cute anime once in a while. Those kind of real-loli vids are for those with fetishes. They definitely won't go for eroge if they can get that. Loli is a sub-type of the art that we all know as anime. That is the difference; the critics are just behaving as they should, griping at just about everything they THINK is related.

As for eroge, I don't see the problem. It's pretty much concentrated in Japan. I've seen it selling in Singapore, but it's a sort of sell-on-demand affair. Nope, eroge not a problem.

Dojin? Gods, I wonder how does it even get into another country. I mean, your average anime fan is not a dojin buyer. I personally feel it's for hardcores.

At least, how i see it.

If someone does a study and finds that a large portion of the people arrested for a crime involving young girls were originally fans of loli works, then I think it would be fair to criticize and restrict it. However, just assuming a correlation is unfair. It would be like making the assumption that people who like action movies are violent people who enjoy watching real men hurt other men in real life.

wow, everyone wrote so much, and I actually took the time to read it all...lol
well, I think everyone is overreacting, "loli" and pedophilia are very different things, and just because you enjoy a particular art style, does not make you want to go out and attack little girls in real life. however, I think this is complicated by loli doujins, as the people that read and draws them obviously has some very perverse intentions. in general, i think this culture is harmless.

i myself have about 20 + loli style fiugres but they r the ones that can be undressed so i jus keep them in the boxes. if i do take them i out, i do warn people not to handle them cuz they will get a surprise haha!!! im not in love with lil gurls or gurls at all for that matter but i do enjoy the style of art they r created from. hey this lil anime gurls r so cute and i dnt like the older gurl figures cuz there poses i feel r much worse. if i do get a figure that is to suggestive i sell it on ebay but for the most part their designed so that u have to remove the clothing urself. i think lolis get a bad rap and they need to be further grouped. most men that do collect them i believe r harmless and women i found out buy them more cuz like i stated earlier think that there r to many provactive old looking figures and not enough male figures for them to buy. i say if u dnt like it then dnt look at it but hey anime, manga, figures there all from a very male dominated industry.so until u change that complain all u want but nothing will change

I'm really impressed with the quality of the comments! Congratulations to all of you!

About the lolita-thing... it's kind of cute, but I'm not really into it, except when I like the artwork.

When I watch old series from the seventies/eighties, there's also definitely some lolita-component. Basically, not too much has changed, except for the styles.

It used to be normal to occasionally catch a glimpse of a girl's panties. These days, because of all the pedophiles, it's just not done anymore. As a single male, I'm staying away from little girls in the first place, for fear of weird looks or accusations!

I'm not one for loli myself, but loli doesn't lead to pedophilia. The act of Pedophilia leads to pedophilia ;)

Im glad to see that the majority on seems to think it’s harmless at least.

Now I myself do like loli and I do think the charecters are kawaii, as they say. Now there may be a difference between loli and lolicon, and since I haven’t really watched any hardcore stuff, I guess I’m not an expert on the field, but I do think that the chances of that leading to pedophilia are very close to 0. First of it’s a 2d art form and even if I think some of the loli chars are very cute and some of them are attractive. I have no such feeling towards normal girls of that age.
Now the more hardcore part with actual pedo cases in the anime might be more problematic for the outsider (and should probably be moved away from normal channels (don’t know how tv works in japan though) since it would be very appauling for some people), but for the otakus who watch it I really don’t think it’s that much of a difference on the mental state of the viewer.

To support that I would like to draw violent games and random sick shit on the internet you might end up passing as a surfer of the internet and as a gamer (gods knows I have clicked on the wrong links sometimes ). Many non-gamers would probably find a lot of that stuff totally unbearable and I find a lot of it disgusting as well, but instead of the lowering my mental state I think it has build it up. Some non-gamers would probably say it sick to chainsaw people in Gears of war or splatter them with a shotgun, but instead as a gamer you get happy when that happens because you know it’s just a game (if I saw it in real life I would probably scream and throw up). Same goes for loli if you enjoy watching it even the doujinshi, I say do what ever float there boat, I would be willing to say that almost non of the loli or lolicon fans would even like to see/participate/do a rape of a normal little girl and they would probably find it as disgusting as the mainstream of people.

Furthermore the statistics shown by Pkick, assuming they are correct, clearly shows that this has non or positive impact on the number of rape cases (even though I think his rape statistics where for all ages and not just child) and those statistics seem to have been the most solid fact, supplied by anyone on in this discussion.
An while I do not suppor t that we should just tolerate everything I think this world would be a lot better of, if many people became a lot more tolerant, towards fields they don’t understand or simply is unwilling to comprehend, I honestly find it more disturbing how the norms of people seem to be pushed on to everyone these days and if you go beyond them, you quickly end up as somewhat of a freak/nerd/criminal in other people eyes. As a wise man once said (would misquote probably, if I tried guessing who exactly it as),“The majority isn’t always right and it isn’t what democracy is about, because if it was the killing of the jews doing WW2 would be justified”.

To sum it up, I believe there is no link between loli and pedo, and furthermore I doubt that most anime/fantasy preferences can be mirrored to real life preferences and cases.

Great conversation. I need to find a way so that we can do this more often ^^;

ok so this is kewl many people think this is a big oh deal an dont get me wrong pedos r creepy no good basturd punks that have no place on the earth (jus my opoinon of course). but i own lets see figure wise : wagamama,pangya aria,akibablog mascot by good smile company, etna, pachira, dj ibril,azil azif by max factory, flonne, mint lentil, moe tan ,fullani by kotobukiya jus to name a few most r considered loli style but the fact of the matter is there awesome figures and i appreciate that. my collection contiunes to grow and i have like 12 on order all loli style. most of my friends think there bad ass and would like to own a few and they dont look at weird or judge me, well the kall me the figure freak. so i guess the only people that think lolis or pedos or anything nasty in that subject area want to think that way like thay say , most people fear things cuz there tempted by them, if u dont mind or care about that then y worry.i for one enjoy my lil loli figures there in a case displayed for the world to to see my love of japanese anime and manga jus made into 3D images.

it's true that there are some rather disturbing trend in the otaku stuffs that we all like. but then, in the end... if you're mentally healthy, nothing can put you up to become a pedophile. It's basically a psychological or mental illness that will turn you into one

How about this? During puberty when our sexual urges start to come out, that is the time when our brain starts to absorb information about what kind of sexual partner is "right". At that point of time, our brain is a sponge and doesn't know what is right or not. For instance, having an older brother that has a secret stash of Playboys would probably make them your "preference".

Now enter a quiet teenager, like many otakus were, always keeping to themselves as a child and socially inept. Perhaps when they first became "aware" of the opposite sex, their notion of the "right" girl would be someone close to their ages (8-13 or whatever). Because they are not very social, perhaps they do not have their idea of the "right" woman "corrected" as compared to Jimmy who, through his teenage years, gets influenced by his brother's playboys and gradually changes his opinion of the "right" girl.

Perhaps other factors come into play as well: liking this girl in your class as you grow older, having a healthy social life with female friends as the teenager develops, etc. Maybe the lolicon did not have all these, and thus he grows older, not having the mindset of the "right" girl changed, but set more into stone, and he becomes what society calls a "lolicon". Perhaps through his social ineptness, he is drawn towards the internet as a medium, and interacts with other "lolicons" and as a corruptible sponge that is a teenager, solidifies his notions of the "right" girl.

Well, at least those are my theories and experiences as a lolicon. I apologise if I am unable to express myself perfectly. I am 20 this year and very much a quiet person, and I have trouble expressing myself to others, and being in a all-male school for 10 years has done much to retard my ability to even look at a girl without being nervous. However, I realised that by interacting more with others, my preference started to change to a more older group. I suppose only time will tell, but I have heard of others who used to like lolicon, but when they grew older, or started their careers, they turned their back on it.

well, Loli is not Pedo, in Indonesia, we describe Loli as a cute girl who looks like a kid, such as Eva (Mahou Sensei Negima), She is more than 100 years Old, but in her chibi form, she looks cute, we called her Loli.

And for Pedo, there is Lolipedo, which is a Loli age not more that 13 years old, such as Kokonoe Rin (Kodomo no Jikan).

The word Pedo means child / kid.

If the Interest of Loli became sexual harrasement, it became rapist, if the interest of Lolipedo becam sexual harrasement, it became pedofilia.

Someone got busted a few years back trying to bring loli into Canada, but they were an actual real life pedophile as well. Canadian law now has a precedent to charge people for making up underage characters in sexual situations and then drawing it. While I agree real life pedophilia isn't right, outlawing fictional characters for any reason is a very slippery slope!

The whole Lolita culture is a littel sickening to me tough. It is not just a matter of the whole barely-legal, but very-not so-legal.

I did not believe that Japan was the most pervertive nation, but looking though this new disturbing otaku subculture with in the otaku universe; I have to agree.

Also the pedofila is on of the most serious crimes. Most sexual crimes are the strongest potientla for being repeat offenders.

I know crimes like these happen anywhere and everywhere too.
Also on an off note part. I will not have my kids raised Cathic because events. (I just want to leave it at that.)

HERE'S MY COUNTER TO MEMBER PKICK:

Don't even act like you can rely on your statistics from nationmaster.com as feasible evidence to back up your argument.

Statistics on rape are highly politicized, often sex biased, and have been accused of being unreliable because they are so diverse and are used by different groups for different reasons. This is partly because of inconsistent definitions of rape in both legislative and academic studies. However, it is also because of over reporting, under reporting and false reporting of the crime. In many legislatures in the world some non-consensual sexual acts are not defined as rape at all. They may be considered legal, or as an illegal form of sexual assault. In some jurisdictions, male-female rape is the only form of rape considered rape while in others male-male, female-male or female-female rape may also be included as a legal form of rape. Rape of children is rarely reported in official reports. Nor is the rape of children by their mothers and fathers or other relations represented in official publications. Rape, alone among other major crimes, suffers from severe definitional contradictions that create controversial statistical disparities. (Wikipedia)

Notice the part about how rape cases involving children are most often hidden from reports? When dealing with a subject like Lolita, you can bet your ass that the vast majority of cases involving sketchy otaku guys raping young school girls are under reported. This holds especially true given the fact that such a large percentage of Japan's male population fall into the category of "sketchy otaku guys".

In other words, it is impossible to get accurate and reliable statistics on rape, and it does not take Sherlock Holmes to figure out that the Japanese government clearly hides as many rape cases as it can for the sake of its pride.

This basically means that Member Pkick's argument is not only faulty, but the evidence it is based on is equally fallacious. So, yeah, you lose, Pkick.

I'm not into it, but saying that loli causes harm to society is like saying video games cause violence. Virtually every human being, otaku or not, can see the difference between reality and anime.

Loli culture should not be blamed for crimes against children. Although loli fans enjoy seeing loli anime girls or arts as an attractive and cute "eye candy", they won't go that far as to commit such crimes.

Loli stuff (whether it's 3D or 2D) is really cute, and both sexes enjoy it. I don't think that anime can provoke sexual assaults against little girls in real life...

I did not believe that Japan was the most pervertive nation, but looking though this new disturbing otaku subculture with in the otaku universe; I have to agree. cool site by the way.