Metal Gear Solid creator Kojima-san expresses how hes not happy with the results of how the graphics ended up on the PS3...
"When we first showed the game engine at TGS, the staff were really proud and happy. PS3 was a dream machine, y'know, and we were going to work on this and that - and we had so many ideas. But when we actually started developing the game, we realized there were a lot of restrictions and so it turned out how you see it today. The original vision was to go ten steps further, the reality was just one step, which isn't to say we didn't progress."
"I remember saying three years ago that we wanted to create something revolutionary, but in reality we couldn't really do that because of the CPU. We're using the Cell engine to its limit., actually. Please don't get me wrong, I'm not criticizing the PS3 machine, it's just that we weren't really aware of what the full-spec PS3 offered - we were creating something we couldn't entirely see."
Full story at Kotaku and larger image here.
MGS trailer that you may not have seen yet below.
Posted on 2008/04/20 08:02
Director/代表取締役
登録日: 2006/12/11 11:06
Hyun-Bin in Sydney Australia / Busan Korea
Sterilization Technician@ Prince Of Wales Hospital
登録日: 2007/01/09 22:47
haven't seen that trailer before :O
but wow , looks nice
i remember that add , saying how.. PS2 was a flower.. and the Ps3 will be a garden..
i hope Killzone 2 won't fall too
i really want Killzone 2 to smack Xbox in the head..
Artist
登録日: 2008/02/23 07:33
Why on earth would you want Killzone to smack Xbox? Are you a gamer or a fanboy? I can't see the point in hating a system, it seems utterly pointless and juvenile.
Otaku, Computer tech, Student
登録日: 2007/12/07 21:33
This is exactly what the PS3's problem is. They used the Cell proc which is nice and all but they stuck a mid range GPU in it and that's the bottleneck. It's like buying a Ferrari and swapping out its engine for a Civic engine (no offense meant to Civic owners... you get the idea xD).
They can only program the Cell proc to take over so much of the GPU processing, there is a limit and I'm assuming they found that limit when creating this game.
So basically, all in all the PS3 is an excellent system and can display excellent graphics but it does have a horrible bottleneck and it will never be able to see it's full potential.
Viking, Scholar, WW2 Commander & Assassin (Educational Science student)
登録日: 2007/11/10 08:15
Do you have any info on what kind of graphics chip the PS3 is using ?
is it an in-house developed graphics chip or a third-party (ATI, Nvidia) one ?
Otaku, Computer tech, Student
登録日: 2007/12/07 21:33
It's a third part developed GPU developed by nvidia, called the RSX and runs at 550MHz. They say it has 1.8 TFLOPS floating point performance.
Some people estimate that the RSX has performance on the level of a Geforce 7800 GTX but it doesn't have the 1700 MHz memory clock. It's made using 90nm architecture so it's quite behind the times in the manufacturing process.
Its developed by Nvidia- based on the GeForce 7800 series
Fonzler in a small dark room in Sydney, Australia
萌え命
登録日: 2007/05/31 23:14
7800 series? Awful!
...Maybe someone can find a way to overclock it...
Web Design & Development
登録日: 2007/09/11 09:43
Actually, the bottleneck is not in the GPU itself so much as the Cell Processor's horribly slow local memory read speed. That needs to be significantly higher because it needs to read that when swapping process instructions from the CPU to the GPU. It's a mere 16MB/s!
http://images.vnu.net/gb/inquirer/news/2006/06/05/ps3-hardware-slow-and-broken/ps3_memory_bandwidths.jpg
The Cell Processor was not designed with external processors such as GPUs in mind. It was intended to be a low-profile chip for use in mobile systems that had all integrated components.
Otaku, Computer tech, Student
登録日: 2007/12/07 21:33
You're quite right about that. Though the GPU itself is still very slow for a system that's supposed to be so advanced. Especially so when you consider the types of GPUs that are already available for PCs.
Meat Puppet
登録日: 2007/11/04 18:16
Well, creativity will always be limited when applying it to ones reality. Regardless, MGS4 looks fantastic & I will enjoy its hours of distraction as many others will also. Shall not hesitate.
Viking, Scholar, WW2 Commander & Assassin (Educational Science student)
登録日: 2007/11/10 08:15
Thats what Kojima got when he developed the game on untested and fresh hardware from Sony. The PS3 hardware specs is nice, no doubt about that... but i feel that there are some things about the hardware that i find either lacking or inadequate, compared to the PC or Xbox 360.
On a related note, ive seen a comparison clip of the game "Assasins Creed" being played on 360 & PS3... and there are notable graphical differences. More details here: http://www.gametrailers.com/player/28006.html. Watch & judge for yourself...
Just my 2 pennies worth of thoughts, though (& that coming from a hardcore PC-Gamer).
MGS4 is still an impressive game, though, now that bleeding-edge graphics msy make or break a game, competition is intensly fierce in the PC/Console gaming business, when it comes to the technological & visual side of things (graphics, game physics & graphic engines).
I wish Konami good luck hope that they deliver their hype with MGS4... if not then its just another fancy & pretty game with nice graphics but no substance. PC-games made these days aren't as impressive as they were back then... =(
Student
登録日: 2008/03/08 16:19
me, being a pc/console gamer myself, agree with you on the part where the majority of games being released recently are starting to lose some substance, actually alot.
Designer & Animator
登録日: 2007/01/11 23:52
I dun really trust Gametrailers comparison videos. Anyhow MGS4 will be good on PS3 as a game.
Imperial Guard
登録日: 2007/08/18 06:30
I`m imprees with the Hideo Kojima declarations. After see the last video of MG 4, and the drafics, and all you can do in the game, he says the grafics result still don`t glad him? Maybe the idea of perfect game he have don`t fits on actual consoles... Indeed Kojima-san is a genius!
qingy in center of the galaxy
SMS
登録日: 2007/10/06 05:09
to me, this kind of feels like an excuse from Kojima to save face
Student
登録日: 2008/03/08 16:19
all the better to wait for a kick A** game. If Kojima needs more time for game development, then let it beeeee.
After all, a masterpiece takes time
qingy in center of the galaxy
SMS
登録日: 2007/10/06 05:09
i'm waiting for ZOE3...Kojima, please deliver
オタク by moonlight, Graphic Designer by daylight
登録日: 2007/11/08 03:37
It's really sad the the bottleneck is the machine itself, not the developers' skill.. =(
How true.
Does this mean that other developers will start maxing out the capabilities of the ps3? Makes me wonder when the machine ive bought has "reached" its limit in this short amount of time its been out...
Student
登録日: 2008/04/01 07:40
Machine, money or time will always be the bottleneck.
I bet Kojima was going for photo realistic graphics which no machine today can achieve. He just had a higher expectation because of what the Sony salesmen told him.
PS3 is a good system but Sony exaggerated what it could do.
Hikikomori
登録日: 2007/08/22 05:30
It seems it't not the first time he said stuff like that... you know, saying he could do more, that he's disappointed on how things came out, blah blah blah.
Anyways, I've never played MGS...
I have a kinda awkward taste for games.
And also, of course, I don't have a PS3. But one of the few games that really caught my attention on the console was Little Big Planet.
Also, I'm almost 2 months having to deal with an old laptop.. my new one's 3D card blew up, and I'm still waiting for tech support.
So the most fun game I've played the past few weeks was Karoshi (highly recommend it, really!).
I'll say this, and only this: The objective of the game is for you to DIE!
http://gmc.yoyogames.com/index.php?showtopic=362308
And here is Karoshi 2.0 (because I'm shure those who play the first one will want the second too)
http://gmc.yoyogames.com/index.php?showtopic=369491
In Insanity Hell
登録日: 2008/03/13 03:33
But still.....MGS4 graphics beat most of the game.....
Chef, Full fledged Otaku, Full time Observer.....
登録日: 2008/02/02 00:26
no matter what they say MSG4 is still looking far better then most other games out there in the market...
Online Shop
登録日: 2008/01/17 11:35
I can't imagine how MGS4 will look like if it was made fully as Kojima-san intended... I'm sad to see MGS4 is the last game of the series, we need more Snake!!!
Stigmata Martyr
登録日: 2007/04/22 12:13
I guess Kojima needs a slice of humble pie along with his serving of disappointment. Yeah of course he is a good game maker but is it really Sony's fault they can't live up to his expectations? I'm no Sony fanboy (hell I don't even have a PS3) but maybe kojima was setting his sights a little too high with MGS4.
Poor College Student
登録日: 2008/03/14 09:02
so much technical stuff.so hard to absorb
i sometimes wish humans really were made like a sponge
NEET (no, student...)
登録日: 2007/08/03 08:36
ouch... coming from a developer... They should put back the release date, and just continue tinkering with the PS3 then... If they know their product is going to suck, by their standards, they should not release it... I mean, i am pretty sure there are going to be loyal MGS fans who will still buy it if it's a year or two delayed...
Non-profit org. volunteering work addict
登録日: 2006/12/31 22:48
Kojima's inspired mind beats current console technology! It's amusing when you see it that way, but sad when you see that his dreams are never fully completed.
dyne46 in Philippines, Antipolo
Customer Service Representative
登録日: 2008/03/14 01:54
Thats true. Since Kojima thinks that he's not satisfied then its better for the fans. We'll gladly wait just to have the ideal MGS 4 experience courtesy of Kojima.
uni student
登録日: 2007/11/10 18:19
personally i don't like MGS4, the metal gears are strange, the bosses are strange too
Part human, part student, 100% loser
登録日: 2007/10/22 02:10
Then YOU are strange... LOL joking, I guess MGS is just not your thing...
otaku-ist
登録日: 2008/02/05 05:40
Kojima is a perfectionist, he's just being hard on himself. This game probobly will still be the best produced this year on this console.
Polytechnic Freshman. Mmm... fresh.
登録日: 2007/01/25 21:20
The graphics look pretty good enough to me... But, well, it's good to know that the developers gave their all in an age where the game market is flooded with cheap knockoffs of movies and novel. If I remember correctly, something similar but on a more minor scale happened with Halo 3... technical details make my head woozy X__X|||
Manufacturing
登録日: 2007/08/22 12:29
Kojima will never be satisfied! Even if he had the latest technology stuff on his hand or was this game build on the PC using the fastest quad core processor along with the meanest GPU tat has crossfire or wat ever! He can still complain about the limitation!
This is wat keep this guy going on! If he is satisfy then the game quality frm him will definitely be not as good as we all thought of!
By the way he develop it on the PS3 not the PC or else he will be more resource greedy then the Crysis game! And we will all have hard time with the fps!
Leisure Consultant, Writer, Webmaster
登録日: 2008/01/29 07:28
I can see what he means. It really doesn't look that much better than MSG3 for PS2. The graphics are a little bit cleaned up, but it definitely doesn't look next gen. He should have just made it for Xbox 360 and called it a day.
Game Designer,Graphic Designer
登録日: 2008/01/24 13:36
dude if he couldnt get his vision on ps3 y do u think he would of made it on 360!! MGS4 is more than 8gigs!!! 360 is to weak!!! your just a dumb fanboi!!
National Servicemen
登録日: 2008/01/19 21:34
if he's so disappointed.. he should just make MGS5.
Non-profit org. volunteering work addict
登録日: 2006/12/31 22:48
I thought of that as well. ^^
"True heroes never die".
student
登録日: 2007/11/16 21:18
Then lets just see how MGS4 ends. Still, I'm worried that Kojima may not want to continue MGS series himself anymore.
Student
登録日: 2008/03/08 16:19
well, its been stated by Kojima himself that this is the last installment of the MGS series
IBMer
登録日: 2008/03/21 21:13
METAL GEAR RAIDEN: SNAKE ERASER
Student
登録日: 2008/03/08 16:19
the head of the project probably wont be run by kojima tho...who knows, and I saw a few clip of the "parody's" on youtube, it seems like a joke?
ひきこもり/Hikikomori. Suits my current state more than a 大学生/University Student. ^^
登録日: 2007/12/04 23:16
The parodies are included on the special edition of MGS 3 on a separate DVD if I remember correctly. ^^
Oh, and METAL GEAR STUPID is also funny.
Metal Gear Sigint was the best.
BeLe in Davao, Philippines
.NET/Web Developer
登録日: 2007/01/03 16:36
With Kojima being a perfectionist, I don't think any machine in his lifetime will be enough to produce the kind of MGS that he has in his mind. With that said, if he's really disappointed with the graphics then he should just create a MGS game that's entirely prerendered in CG and just have button presses to determine actions. hahah. just like the ones you see in God of War. XD
Also, with the developers saying they've pushed it to the limits...I find it funny that they say this now but a few years from now they'll makes games that'll exceed the ones they're making right now. This was true with the ps1 and ps2 and I'm sure this will be true with the ps3 as well or any console for that matter.
ひきこもり/Hikikomori. Suits my current state more than a 大学生/University Student. ^^
登録日: 2007/12/04 23:16
The man's really passionate. Too passionate for PS3 to contain. Need to migrate to PC, it seems. ^^
Henry in Makati, Philippines
anime/cosplay events organizer
登録日: 2006/12/25 19:17
i know how the MGS Team and Kojima felt...
imagine yourself in their position where this would be your last project to work on and of course you want to go all out with a bang but with the limitation that the Cell processor, it has let them down but at least they've done what they could and just pushed the Cell processor to its limit...
Student
登録日: 2007/11/11 13:00
qingy in center of the galaxy
SMS
登録日: 2007/10/06 05:09
ITT: gullible gamers that treat Kojima like a video game god.
when i heard MGS4 wouldn't fit on a single bluray, i knew something wasn't right. speaking as a neutral gamer, i think the developers are just making an excuse to appease the angry video gaming masses. that said, i'm going to play the game and find out for myself. but chances are Kojima is trying to pull a fast one and the game will most likely be an overhyped disappointment (i'm hoping it isn't).
most PC games coming out right now have graphics that rival the next gen consoles. they can fit it on a DVD thats 4.7GBs, MGS4 can't fit on 25GBs bluray? seems like some BS to me...
3D artist- Codemasters KL
登録日: 2007/09/01 13:53
IBMer
登録日: 2008/03/21 21:13
Student and Miku Guardian
登録日: 2008/03/11 20:11
Well, even though he said that, the graphics is still one of the best..
Will wait for it when it comes out in Singapore.. ^^
専門学生
登録日: 2007/01/11 20:46
this what i want to hear from a developer, i dunno how many developer that think further than the current hardware can gives, since usually developer just follow hardware capabilities without thinking further/step ahead in creating amazing games, that like we know lately console game lack of great games
well i aint mgs fanboy and i dun think mgs is an super amazing games too, but i admit mgs is one of great game in the earth.
the funny things about it is, its like konami (mgs team) is like used to PS3 ornaments (especially in programming side) which on other side, there lots of game developer still struggling with it (as proof u can see how much titles ps3 have till now which already 1 years passed since ps3 launch date)
Aisu in Vancouver, Canada
登録日: 2007/08/03 15:57
Hmm even though he says that, I still think it looks very good. Can't wait till I get a PS3 to play this game!
Evil King in Vlaardingen, the Netherlands, Earth
Student and full-time otaku
登録日: 2007/12/19 00:24
Judging by the stuff in that trailer, I think that developer has a little too much self-criticism....
IBMer
登録日: 2008/03/21 21:13
my metal gear online finished downloading.
now to wait till their servers open up so i can test this baby out.
NEET
登録日: 2008/02/17 09:28
I actually think MGS 4 will be one of the best games this year, I just love the series. Kojima never fails!
And, a few hours from now the servers will open up for MGO, yay. Though, it's pretty much impossible to patch the game, damn Konami.
Proud VGI member and IT student...
登録日: 2007/11/20 13:08
Uh-oh...
If Kojima-sensei himself complained...
Student
登録日: 2008/04/02 14:33
Hideo Kojima is simply a perfectionist. He never seems all that happy with what he creates. He could make a game better than sex and probably still complain that it wasn't what he envisioned. As such this comment of his is probably best ignored.
Proud VGI member and IT student...
登録日: 2007/11/20 13:08
guess you're right...
let just be patient and see for ourselves...
Structural Engineer
登録日: 2007/01/15 21:17
if he is truly are a perfectionist, i think we can hope that one day he'll create a game that he always envision.. thats what perfectionists do.. they create and create... to strive to perfection... If he says that MGS4 is not on par with he's expectation, can you imagine what kind of vision of MGS4 in his genius brain??!!! i m sure, if that game really came out, it could be "The Best Game of the 21st century" lol
R-1 in the "Hagane" docking bay
Personal Trooper
登録日: 2007/07/05 20:49
Looks good to me. But I understand his "it's not good enough" attitude and where it's coming from. This IS his baby after all, and he wants everyone to be proud of it.
But, pretty graphics do not make a good game necessarily.
Proud VGI member and IT student...
登録日: 2007/11/20 13:08
but it helps a lot...
(after looking at your ava)for example SRW...
R-1 in the "Hagane" docking bay
Personal Trooper
登録日: 2007/07/05 20:49
Sure enough. Been playing this series since SRW 3, and I truly appreciate how far the graphics and animations have come. But, it was still a great game back then, without the flashy attacks, though now, it's more hot-blooded.
student and おたく
登録日: 2007/09/02 00:51
Well, thats too bad, but the developers have done all that can be done. They really pushed this project to its limits. Thats what matters.
I'm not going to be disappointed with this game just because Kojima was disappointed that the game didn't meet his visionary expectations. He's a perfectionist, so it's to be expected. I'm a little surprised he would come out with these comments before the game has even launched. But maybe this is in some sense reverse-psychology on his part. So that gamers will temper their heightened unrealistic expectations for this game and be more impressed when they actually see and experience the game for themselves. Also, I don't believe in the part that they have pushed the PS3 to its limits just yet, it just hasn't been out long enough. I remember how impressed I was when Shadow of the Colossus came out for the PS2. Before that, I thought the system had reached its limits.
Web & Multimedia Designer
登録日: 2008/07/24 17:35
thats exactly the point kojima wasn't aware of the ps3's power and architecture that they could use it in a perfect way.i'm not saying they didn't done a great job on MGS4 it's really nice but 50GB disc wasnt enough??hehe okay the online mode took space too..
