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Good to see my home country England spending tax payers money effectively.
They recently put into effect a ban on the sale, production, and importation of samurai swords.
"Those breaking the law face six months in jail and a £5,000 fine. Carrying a sword in public is already illegal.
Exemptions will cover swords which are used for re-enactments or antique weapons kept on display by collectors.
Eight years ago a councillor was killed by a man wielding a samurai sword in the office of Cheltenham Liberal Democrat MP Nigel Jones.
Anyone found guilty of importing samurai swords will face up to seven years in prison and an unlimited fine. "
What gets me is that they implemented this because a person was killed by a samurai sword *8* years ago?
Does this mean that if I declare myself a collector or say that my sword is part of my cosplay re-enactments then I'd be off the hook?
News via Japan Probe, image via Moe Imouto.
Posted on 2008/04/07 13:11
Director/代表取締役
登録日: 2006/12/11 10:54
Leisure Consultant, Writer, Webmaster
登録日: 2008/01/29 07:16
I wonder what their rules are on guns....There is probably a big black market for those swords.
Student, Spiral Warrior
登録日: 2008/02/04 09:49
I hear civilian possession of firearms is completely prohibited in England.
Student
登録日: 2008/04/07 01:28
Civilian possession of firearms is allowed but only if you hold a license and if you can provide evidence that you need it for your job or sport (i.e. hunting) from what I understand. Also, before you get issued a license you have to jump through a load of hoops like interviews and background checks by the secret service.
Regarding the banning of samurai swords, there have actually been quite a few more recent cases than the one in the article. In fact, in London these are one of the weapons of choice of gangs and a policeman friend tells me he has to deal with incidents with samurai swords quite frequently. So, I'm all for the ban.
Student, Spiral Warrior
登録日: 2008/02/04 09:49
Thanks for the clarification.
Design Consultant
登録日: 2007/08/23 04:32
Sounds like a good idea, until you realize that they will start using classical english broadswords, or rapiers, then italian foils, then german broadswords, then hatchets, axes, polearms, sais, commas, nunchukai, and so on and so forth. Eventually they will ban 2x4's and t-ball bats like in Japan. Silly, No?
Student, Spiral Warrior
登録日: 2008/02/04 09:49
Heaven help them when the hooligans discover the board with an nail in it.
大学生/University Student
登録日: 2007/12/04 23:04
Uh sorry but, what are 2x4's and t-ball bats? ^^
security/student
登録日: 2007/04/17 14:41
2x4.. piece of wook.. 2ftx 4 ft long..
t-ball.. baseball bat..
a discrace really.. taking all the weapons out the normal peoples hands and only leave the criminal with the weapons..
recent rash of gun crimes here in the US in so called "gun free zone" what a waste... give everybody a gun.. and people will be afraid to comit gun crimes cus they wouldn't know who had a gun... so WOULDN'T comit the crime.. sheesh.. simple logic..
The one thing that really bugs me is, not the regulation itself, but that the law is directed against "samurai swords" it's almost like the ones writing the law believe in their magic superiority over other types of bladed weapons. ^^;
Non-profit org. volunteering work addict
登録日: 2006/12/31 22:36
In that case I guess they would affiliate weapons then make group bans... A bit like for dangerous dogs like pitbulls.
Student
登録日: 2007/08/22 13:23
My weapon of choice is crowbar
Student
登録日: 2007/10/27 01:14
My weapon of choice is a spoon
all the weapons you mention (axes, broadswords...) are less efficient in gang fights. Katanas are supposed to be the best sword in the world specially against people not wearing a platemail or similar metal armour.
I have to agree with a ban but it's stupid to limit it to katanas (or samurai swords as they call them). It should be all weapons designed for killing. That way you are sure that gangs will not figure out that they forgot to mention say some (inset country here) sword class or something.
Good cutting weapons would include any kind saber, cutlass, scimitar, chinese dao...
Or if you like it big a dadao would be a very scary weapon even in the hands of a novice.
In fights with limited space a shorter two edged weapon like a roman gladius might even be a lot better suited than a katana.
We also shouldn't forget that we aren't talking about differentially hardened well polished japanese swords, but crappy, tip heavy reproductions.
And when it comes to facing an unarmed opponent musashi had the idea of improvising the additional use of a shorter wakizashi.
A fighting system not much unlike the one specialized combinations of rapier and dagger were developed for... granted I'm oversimplifying things, but swords are tools made to slice or pierce through humans, and history knows many effective variations specifically designed for this purpose, even if the fighting style associated with them might have been lost in the flow of time...
But your usual gang member is unlikely to be more trained in the use of a grossmesser than it is with a katana.
the last sentence should have been.. more trained in the use of a katana than it is with a grossmesser... ^^;
and musashi faced unarmored opponents.. ^^;;, sorry
大学生徒, データ変更師
登録日: 2007/07/27 11:49
I'd think that a katana, or kodachi would be a lot easier to conceal than, say a claymore or any European sword (and I don't think UK gangs relish running around with rapiers), maybe that's why it's specific to the "samurai *sic* sword"? Or maybe it's because one idiot decided to chop someone up with a Japanese sword and then others followed suit.
University Student
登録日: 2007/11/09 05:22
LoL, come to the USA and you can just go to the local Wal*Mart store and buy a shotgun or 22 etc...No special license required. Just walk in, point at what you want and hand them the money.
Meimi132 in Back end of nowhere, aka Norfolk, England
Student and Mcdonalds Grease monkey.
登録日: 2007/12/04 04:05
I heard about this a couple of months ago.... sword sales at conventions are gonna be severely depleted....
And in the uk, guns are bad. I'm not sure if they're all completely banned.
And I heard that samurai swords were the weapon of choice for gangs now... cos guns are more illegal...were more illegal...
NEET (no, student...)
登録日: 2007/08/03 08:24
don't they check at convention for weapons as props? I mean, Comiket cosplay area didn't allow weapon props (although, I am sorta glad because that area was PACKED)
Stealthy Ninja, Life support.
登録日: 2008/01/15 12:29
what about swords used for martial arts?
AH HA!maybe another loop hole?!
Non-profit org. volunteering work addict
登録日: 2006/12/31 22:36
Can those be sorted into "re-enactments" (as in public demonstrations, etc.)?
Student, Spiral Warrior
登録日: 2008/02/04 09:49
One can only hope these will be permitted.
Student
登録日: 2008/04/07 01:28
From what I've heard martial artists will be allowed to possess samurai swords but only if they can prove they are committed to the martial art (probably by reaching 1st dan or something similar). There is no point letting just any novice own a samurai sword, and besides every club I've been to in the UK uses bokken instead of real swords anyway.
Design Consultant
登録日: 2007/08/23 04:32
I collect swords, I have over 20 of them in my house. If someone tried to ban my collection... well, I guess it just wouldnt happen in USA. Not because we are "perfect" or anything, mostly just because the NRA (National Rifle Association) woudl realize they are next and would protest. It would never get signed into law. Of course, if we had a crime rate like Japan I would happily give up my swords.
Non-profit org. volunteering work addict
登録日: 2006/12/31 22:36
I get fuzzy all over whenever I touch a blade (even if it is a kitchen knife), though I certainly am not a violent person... My fascination for them (some love guns, I prefer swords and spears) is partially implied in my nickname. ^^
...
Ahem, yes, the comment. *Shuffles papers and sorts them*
*Clears throat* This banning law is a bit overboard in my opinion. But hopefully they do not permit free possession of guns like in the USA (Yes, I know, permits and all, but still)... Otherwise that would have been strange, not to say illogic.
Possession of any weapon must imply responsibility and their use in the most extreme cases only (such as life-threatening situations and self-defense).
But one should remember that owning one does not necessarily mean violence; on the other hand, violent acts do not necessarily imply the use of weapons.
Student, Spiral Warrior
登録日: 2008/02/04 09:49
I get the impression that weapon law in England is fairly extreme across the board, not only in terms of big things like guns and large blades, but even pocket knives as well. Of course, my knowledge is all second-hand at best.
Design Consultant
登録日: 2007/08/23 04:32
In the USA you cannot conceal your weapon in public (depending on the State) And I agree with D_Blade 100% that this is ridiculous, and there is a large amount of discipline and responsibility with owning a lethal weapon. I feel bad D_Blade that swords are illegal to carry in public in most parts of Canada. Also, you cant carry most knives. You know.. if the bad guys didnt have weapons....
Non-profit org. volunteering work addict
登録日: 2006/12/31 22:36
Sometimes I feel that honest/innocent people will always be on the losing side concerning certain situations...
In Insanity mode v2.35
登録日: 2008/03/13 03:21
Wow...banning samurai sword huh...those who kill with a sword is much rarer than a knife and guns...so what the heck...
Design Consultant
登録日: 2007/08/23 04:32
Im pretty sure those are already banned in england too. You dont know how lucky we are brother...
security/student
登録日: 2007/04/17 14:41
i agree.. 2nd amendment.. gotta love it..
if they ever tried to ban guns.. they would have to go to almost each and every house in hte whole contry (i pity the country that tries to invade us...) and force it out of there hands...
but i do agree... people need to be traind properly.. especially with guns..
In Insanity mode v2.35
登録日: 2008/03/13 03:21
Lol why not ban kitchen knife instead....
Student, Spiral Warrior
登録日: 2008/02/04 09:49
I've heard of more than one incident in England in the last few years involving Japanese-style swords. I think the last one I heard about involved a man who actually intervened with a sword and defended some policemen from an assailant. Afterward he escaped, but was being sought by the police.
In any case, while the murder of eight years ago which the article mentions may be part of the reason for this legislation, it seems to be part of a broader concern in England. I'm glad, at least, to hear that it sounds like legitimate students of swordsmanship and collectors will be permitted to keep their instruments, but no doubt this sort of law will make things harder on them.
オタク by moonlight, Graphic Designer by daylight
登録日: 2007/11/08 03:25
It sounds good to me already it's a bit late. Any kind of weapon shouldn't be allow. >=(
Student
登録日: 2007/12/20 09:33
Then shouldn't kitchen knife be prohibited? As far as I know, they are quite sharp, some easy to hide and easy to find. I'm pretty sure I can kill some one with a kitchen knife as with a Katana.
It not the weapon that kill people, it people that kill people.
Design Consultant
登録日: 2007/08/23 04:32
I agree, its kind of like fire. It can be used for a good purpose, like giving warmth, light, cooking, making things, or it can kill. The fire is just a tool, how it is used is what defines it. Swords arent evil or bad, people that use them for negative purposes cause that stigma.
Non-profit org. volunteering work addict
登録日: 2006/12/31 22:36
There is a Dark Side to everything... *Starts humming Uncle Vader's theme*
and i know not the power of it
Logis Of The Adeptus Mechanicus
登録日: 2008/03/12 14:29
Why ban importation and not exportation? They can illegally import and legally export? 'Tis nonsense.
On a completely irrelavent note, this also reminds me of those anti-gun movements we have here in the States; they make me laugh: "We're going to sign a petition to ban illegal guns!"
Design Consultant
登録日: 2007/08/23 04:32
Lol, Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. Now, everyone with illegal black market guns, we have this petition, so turn them in. We will wait here holding our breath... um... ya!
Logis Of The Adeptus Mechanicus
登録日: 2008/03/12 14:29
Maybe it's that not baning export would enable them to get rid of the swords by selling them ^^;
It's also possible that there are companies in the UK that make their money by producing cheap samurai sword replicas...
GTR in Minnesota, United States
登録日: 2008/02/29 16:52
Just Samurai swords? It doesn't apply to Chinese Swords right, O_o?
But uh, I think swords aren't as bad as guns. Anyone can just point and shoot a gun. While a sword requires some skills, = .
Design Consultant
登録日: 2007/08/23 04:32
I agree completely. A child cannot run up to me with a sword and kill me. I doubt most kids could even lift one. You cant "accidently" shoot your friend with a sword and not think its loaded. There is no "oops, I thought the safety was on!". Plus, if a kid could lift the sword, it would be fairly easy to take it away from him. But a kid could shoot me with a gun no problem. I know people are going to argue with this, but swords require a skill and ability that guns just dont.
security/student
登録日: 2007/04/17 14:41
like said.. the hooligans are using swords now.. sooo.. lets make em illegal so we can arrest all the hooligans.. and as said.. wait till the nail in the board becomes illegal!
the us would be the only country alive if the robots revolt!
Otaku, Computer tech, Student
登録日: 2007/12/07 21:21
Lol. I hate laws like this. I hate the people in the governments that try to ban guns and such. Simple common sense will tell that weapons are NOT dangerous unless they're handled by someone who is dangerous. I think the best way to handle it is to make guns, swords, knives and any other kind of weapon legal everywhere but in order to own one you need to pass a series of mental test, including one for common sense.
Design Consultant
登録日: 2007/08/23 04:32
I think its much easier if they just give permission away in cracker jacks boxes.. along with licenses and opinions.
Non-profit org. volunteering work addict
登録日: 2006/12/31 22:36
Let's go Minority Report!
Kyle in Seattle, Washington
Student
登録日: 2007/10/08 05:08
OK, if they are going to refer to an incident that occurred 8 years ago, then why didn't they issue this law 8 years ago? This is just an excuse to waste money probably. =(
Design Consultant
登録日: 2007/08/23 04:32
actually, that sounds about right for governments responding hastily to a problem that is arising. Do you really think our government is any better? Honestly? Example: Hurricane Katrina and the still existing lack of hurricane barriers in New Orleans. Sigh.
Student
登録日: 2007/11/13 13:30
Being a edged weapon collector and enthusiast, if this new legislation is put into effect, fellow practioners and enthusiasts has my sympathy.
I specialise and lean more towards the studies of Japanese-styled and Japanese swords, and i can already feel a part of me "die". It is these uneducated youngsters or even adults (in this case), that keeps pressuring the law to be stricter.
In my personal opinion, Mr. Chris James (as mentioned on the BBC website), is a tad selfish. With him being a qualified collector, he probably did not think about this thoroughly. As this law not only effects "youths getting hold of cheap reproductions", but will change the community as a whole. Has he even considered about the martial artists? Or even younger collecters/beginners such as I?
Hearing about this sends chills down my spine, as i can feel the restrictions and laws creeping up behind my back. As one of the younger members of the Sword Forums International (SFI), i will try and dig up more information regarding this topic and try and gain a better understanding.
But for now, i just pray Australia won't follow the same footsteps. And once again, I terribly feel sorry for those who are actually RESPONSIBLE and take a serious approach to this wonderful hobby. Yes, it's unfair. Best of luck!
Bag Boy
登録日: 2008/04/03 11:41
I've got a few swords of my own. They're not that special really. They look cool, and I mess around a bit with them, but all of them aren't sharp, so I don't have to worry about cutting a limb off or anything.
I find laws like this stupid, if someone wants to kill someone are they really gonna be stopped by lack of a sword? ''oh no! I dont have my samurai sword! ... then I'll just buy a chainsaw/axe/sickle etc etc''.
You can ban weapons ... but you cant ban intent.
Design Consultant
登録日: 2007/08/23 04:32
D'accord. The truth is, if someone wants to kill someone else, they will find a way. Maybe spend the time and energy on education and strengthening police forces instead? Nah. Lol, what am I thinking?
student
登録日: 2008/01/09 00:12
strengthening police forces = costs lots of money
banning something = cheap
It's an obvious choice.
security/student
登録日: 2007/04/17 14:41
reminds me of the movie Demolition Man.. in a future where EVERYTHING BAD FOR U is illigal.. frome weapons to red meat.. please beat me to death with whatevers left( i wonder if anything would BE left?) to kill me with.. if this happens!
Engineering research
登録日: 2008/03/25 10:12
Student Otaku
登録日: 2008/01/04 16:05
Now that's rare. People die from a sword. Usually, it's a knife. Banning swords is a big problem, for people who are cosplayers in England. I wonder, if cosplayers will get off the hook...?
World Traveller
登録日: 2007/11/04 18:04
I guess if I'm ever in England I'll have to stick with a Ginsu 2000 kitchen knife to cut tomatoes with deadly precision. Hai ya!
Design Consultant
登録日: 2007/08/23 04:32
Wait, you can cut things with kitchen knives? BANNNED!
Non-profit org. volunteering work addict
登録日: 2006/12/31 22:36
Seconded! Plastic knives for you!
大学生/University Student
登録日: 2007/12/04 23:04
But plastic knives can cut still, so.. banned? lol ^^
In Insanity mode v2.35
登録日: 2008/03/13 03:21
Ok...than how bout paper kife then....
Non-profit org. volunteering work addict
登録日: 2006/12/31 22:36
Okay Ben, you're limited in only using your teeth to eat meat, even if it is as hard as a brick. Enjoy.
Student, Writer and Graphic/Web Designer
登録日: 2007/11/17 09:56
England is famous for it's absurd laws and regulations... this thing doesn't surprises me more than other strange stuff they have there.
"any freeman is allowed to lead the herd of sheep across London Bridge duty-free in London. Moreover, a freeman has an opportunity to lead geese in Cheapside. But a plague-stricken person is prohibited from taking a taxi in the streets."
Yeah
Design Consultant
登録日: 2007/08/23 04:32
What about it being Illegal to perform "fellatio" in the State Arizona? Wow, I could send so many girls to jail right now.
student
登録日: 2008/01/09 00:12
Receiving one isn't illegal? ^^''
security/student
登録日: 2007/04/17 14:41
no its like sharia law.. you have to have 20 witnesses to say it happened... >_<
大学生/University Student
登録日: 2007/12/04 23:04
lol, 20 people witnessing fellatio.. I can't imagine it happens. ^^
Photographer
登録日: 2007/07/16 21:44
Ah yes the ever popular and ever so wothless weapons ban law. Yup I can see the hoodlums turning in their swords now. Wait, they're not turning them? I guess that's another law that fails to address the REAL issue the stupid criminal oh well, maybe next time England.
Student
登録日: 2007/01/03 02:00
A samurai sword is an old sword with lots of history, these things shouldn't be banned, if someone wants to acquire one it should be allowed only if it had a license like a firearm. I'd love to get my hands on one. If one is allowed to use a gun to protect himself why not a sword? Are they afraid that we go out there and start chopping people?!
A japanese made "samurai swords" (shinken 真剣) probably won't be affected. There are strong regulations on japanese smiths (limiting production and resulting in a hefty price tag)
They usually come with papers and if you'd be willing to buy one you'd probably wouldn't have a problem to get a permission as a collector.
Student
登録日: 2007/08/22 13:57
Huhu, in Malaysia, samurai swords are one of the favourite weapon for gangster here (other than machete, knife and axe). Gangster in Malaysia use those because firearms are very har d to get in Malaysia, and these gangster didnt have enough funds to provide firearms to all their members. However, if i'm not mistaken, samurai swords used here are not imported from Japan, they were either imported from our neighboring country, or made locally (samurai sword confiscated here by the police only look similar to Japanese samurai sword only at the form of the edge, they dont have handguard and the hilt is not pretty)
dannychoo.com no aidokusha
登録日: 2007/12/25 22:50
i think there is a ruling in malaysia that an individual is allowed to carry any sort of blade as long as its not longer than 10cm
but there are many exceptions, like when i was a scout, we are allowed to carry "parang" (machete, sorry dunno whats it called in japanese) around the public because we need to chop some bamboos for our scout project...
dont really see alot of samurai swords in malaysia, and yes i think most are actually imported from Siam.
Student,Visual Artist,Otaku
登録日: 2007/11/19 09:01
The whole weapons are banned thing doesn't really impress me,
since here in the netherlands it's pretty clear: no firearms and swords unless you got a permit,
although I hear they are pretty easy about the fellatio thing Dragun.
the mind boggles as to how this will prevent crime in any way. totally baffling really. wonder what they take away next? pointy shoes?
NEET
登録日: 2008/04/07 17:59
Erm.. I wonder if the Iaidoka in the UK are still allowed to use sharpened katanas.
landscaper
登録日: 2007/04/20 09:01
o k then dos that mean my viking Chinese roman and Irish swords and axes and still legal??
dannychoo.com no aidokusha
登録日: 2007/12/25 22:50
landscaper
登録日: 2007/04/20 09:01
na not really its just an old hobby my da started me on most of the stuff i have was made for me by him and 1 of his friends there not sharp and there all very well looked after strung around the house but i lik
