Sat 2008/10/11 10:43
Tokyo Times spots a maid getaway in Nakano with this sign on the door - few more pics at his burogu.
What would your reaction be if you saw one of these? Does stuff like this exist in your region? I remember a German friend came over during the world cup a few moons ago. He tried to walk into a German themed pub which was showing a match with Germany and was told to get out because he was not Japanese.
Posted on Sat 2008/10/11 10:43 by
Racism? Or language requirement? Hard to judge there....
(ID #330437) Posted on 2008/10/11 10:31
Well it says something pretty similar in korean there too, so I'm guessing it's actually "no non-japanese".
(ID #330689) Posted on 2008/10/11 14:00
language requirement is racism imho
(ID #330995) Posted on 2008/10/11 20:18
The languages you can speak have nothing to do with your race, hence it's nothing to do with racism.
(ID #331093) Posted on 2008/10/11 23:47
I agree.
(ID #331345) Posted on 2008/10/12 06:24
Very true, but with ethnicity comes an expectation that you are supposed to speak one language or another. Happens to me and it can get very annoying at times.
(ID #332320) Posted on 2008/10/13 05:17
Isn't that like Americans requiring foreigners to know english? I remember a news report a year ago where a Texan-woman tells the camera; "They should at least know how to speak english if they wanna enter our country"
(ID #333015) Posted on 2008/10/13 19:28
In English, the word "Japanese" is ambiguous–it can mean Japanese (person), or Japanese (language), but in Japanese, there are two different words, and the sign says "Japanese (people) only", so it is definitely racism...
(ID #332375) Posted on 2008/10/13 06:41
Musician, Sound Engineer, Student - Currently Military (2yrs)
Exclusivity, i believe. It's part of "pride" which has good and bad points, mostly good in Japan. Danny, have you ever been chased out of an establishment, or does being of oriental descent help "escape" the exclusive policies at some places?
(ID #337077) Posted on 2008/10/16 23:27
We don't have anything of that sort here. If anyone posted a sign like that, the backlash would be epic.
(ID #330443) Posted on 2008/10/11 10:32
Multimedia Technology Student, eLearning software developer
You wouldn't find anything like that down here either. If there was it'd hit the news so fast.
(ID #330464) Posted on 2008/10/11 10:44
Seconded. The US constitution prohibits things like this. The shop owner would be sued by endless numbers of people.
(ID #330737) Posted on 2008/10/11 14:37
Mind Navigator
Not only from those offended, but from those upset that they have to listen to people like Al Sharpton talk. "You put him on TV, didn't you?!!! Now my girlfriend won't give me dolphin treats!! Thanks a lot, pal!!"
(ID #330814) Posted on 2008/10/11 15:55
We most certainly do, it's just that the place above is kind enough to put it on a sign outside of the door. There are certain restaurants in SoCal where the staff will stop you when you enter and apologize profusely as they tell you that there's nothing available. Question all of the empty tables or ask how long the wait will be and they'll tell you VERY apologetically that EVERYTHING has been reserved. If you're swift, you might even pick up on the fact that as they're very politely apologizing they're also very, politely motioning / ushering you towards the door. Maybe it's the only way they can relax with others who share a similar culture w/o having to worry about the unfortunate misunderstandings that arise when two different cultures meet. ...or maybe it's just racism. Who's to say?
(ID #330919) Posted on 2008/10/11 17:57
Telecommunications engineer
Guess someone got sick of having cholos crashing into their premises? I say it 'cuz a friend of mine entered one of such places. He's Mexican, but he's white and speaks nigh-perfect English and thus he easily passes as American. When someone called him over the phone and he answered in Spanish, the staff felt absolutely awkward. They didn't worked up the courage to kick someone they thought was American :D
(ID #330944) Posted on 2008/10/11 18:42
what is SoCal?
(ID #330997) Posted on 2008/10/11 20:20
Southern California
(ID #331166) Posted on 2008/10/12 01:23
not here either
(ID #331406) Posted on 2008/10/12 09:20
...That upsets me real bad. Thats rasism.
(ID #330444) Posted on 2008/10/11 10:33
Doesn't surprise me, Japan is probably one of the most xenophobic countries on the planet. However, being an Island nation, I guess it's not too surprising.
(ID #330447) Posted on 2008/10/11 10:35
funny you should say that. what about phillipines, singapore, bali, taiwan? but point on Japan being most xenophobic conceded for sure. they're probably the leaders in that aspect, with australia coming in a close second IMO.
(ID #330577) Posted on 2008/10/11 12:28
Singapore is superbly international :P
(ID #330669) Posted on 2008/10/11 13:47
and foreign talents are treated better than the local citizens..
(ID #330713) Posted on 2008/10/11 14:20
radical anime fan in Singapore; starting to freeze up. Mmm, end-of-year weather. (Registered on 2007/01/25 22:08)
Polytechnic Freshman. Mmm... fresh.
Aye, you got that right. Not fair for the locals to have to pay to gamble. XD
(ID #331189) Posted on 2008/10/12 01:38
umm.. i think your very wrong about that =P how could australia be multicultural if it was so xenophobic? lol
(ID #330789) Posted on 2008/10/11 15:18
is australia xenophobic? I'm pretty surprised at that considering I lived there for two years :P did you have a bad experience? I was just wondering
(ID #331105) Posted on 2008/10/12 00:14
Wannabe Designer
I think it really depends on where you go in Oz and who you meet... ...unfortunately our moron minority tends to be fairly vocal.
(ID #331710) Posted on 2008/10/12 15:19
Xenophobic is right! I just returned from my third trip to Japan. I've made Japanese babies cry!! Once at a public Onsen, and the other was my wife's friend's one year old son. And, I'm really not that ugly XD
(ID #331368) Posted on 2008/10/12 07:23
Anime Store Owner, artist, Web master
As big of a fan of Japan as I am and everyone else here, I'm ashamed since this pure racism is utter stupidity that shouldn't exist this day and age. Japan is the most advance place in the world in all areas but fails very bad with this crap. Though many places are fine for gaijin throughout the country, there is still this snotty,proud feeling amongst the older generation. For example, my fiancee's grandmother, love her to death, but she will make fun of foreigners; mainly of other Asian cultures like China, calling them dirty, irate animals. Now this is coming from a Japanese woman who married a 100% Italian man! Since I'm marrying into a Japanese family, hopefully I'll have access to many parts of the country when I visit extended family. If Japan really wants to beat out the very real dying youth issue, they have to stop this crap completely or I'd fear the Japanese economy will face a catastrophe far worse than what the US is facing now and will again have to face as all the baby boomers age and die. None of us want to see that happen and thankfully there is a big campaign going on for Japan tourism. (wow, that's a large post ^^;)
(ID #331481) Posted on 2008/10/12 11:30
Student // Collector // Gaijin
I live in Vancouver, BC...if anything like that existed people would go ballistic. We're too multicultural here to put up with that crap.
(ID #330455) Posted on 2008/10/11 10:38
Funny thing is, last winter here, we had an incident at a bar my mom used to work at, there was a karaoke going on this night and some african american man was trying to get around this older man (40s?), and asked politely if he could move, and of course the man responded with racial slurs. Bad idea. Everyone, and I'm not even kidding -- about 60 people -- in the bar turned on the man calling out racial slurs and got extremely angry with him. My mom picked up the baseball bat behind the bar and started yelling at him to get out of the bar, saying he was no longer welcomed there. The point is, it's stupid and the only people we can blame are the parents of such people. That kind of thing no longer has a need to be here.
(ID #330465) Posted on 2008/10/11 10:45
university film student
Ah, yes. We Canadians are so very defensive of our multiculturalism. We see it as part of our identity, methinks. ^^ Not that racism doesn't exist here, but most of us beat it to death if we can find it. But that sign...I seriously don't care. It's not like I've no where else to go. And at least they're sort of polite about it - it's just as easy to say gaijin aren't welcome instead of Japanese Only
(ID #330708) Posted on 2008/10/11 14:17
the patrons turned on the black man, or the racist man?
(ID #330711) Posted on 2008/10/11 14:18
I'm sure it was the racist guy.
(ID #330765) Posted on 2008/10/11 14:57
daichouginga in Byston Well, the land between the earth and the sea (Registered on 2008/06/04 10:04)
Professional Bum Mode
They defended the african american man -- in short they got angry at the one who said the racial slurs.
(ID #330781) Posted on 2008/10/11 15:13
here here! Vancouver is awesome
(ID #330472) Posted on 2008/10/11 10:49
Love Vancouver...sadly I moved not too long ago so its all Burnaby now...but school's in vancity so...>w<
(ID #330791) Posted on 2008/10/11 15:21
Student
*kinda* awesome.... if it were not for the housing prices lol... but still back to topic... racism almost nonexistent ^^
(ID #331238) Posted on 2008/10/12 02:53
I sense a racist act here. It sometimes happen too in my country, and it's not just nationality racism, sometimes ethnicity is the problem in my country.
(ID #330457) Posted on 2008/10/11 10:40
It also reminds me of the "No Jews or dogs" signs in the 1930s. -_-
(ID #330459) Posted on 2008/10/11 10:41
Do remember asking 「外人でもいいですか？」 "Is a gaijin alright?" before entering a brothel near Shibuya, which is certainly something I wouldn't ask out of Japan ^^; Things like this is mostly from fear of language barriers, cultural differences, etc. Actually, looking at the pics there, the guy is right, that's not a maid cafe, but actually a brothel too.
(ID #330461) Posted on 2008/10/11 10:42
Director/代表取締役
Thanks - corrected.
(ID #330469) Posted on 2008/10/11 10:47
Telecommunications engineer
That explains everything. Brothels in Tokyo are like "Tokyo is for us, Amsterdam is for gaijins".
(ID #330947) Posted on 2008/10/11 18:45
IT, Programmer, ...
But I don't like Amsterdam...
(ID #332481) Posted on 2008/10/13 09:20
... Brothel:P Now Im more upset ;D
(ID #330471) Posted on 2008/10/11 10:48
Hehe, makes a lot more sense with the brothel, would be surprised to see that on a real maid cafe. Brothel-like places actually are the single biggest spots where you'd see "Japanese Only" type signs or rules, which is why I asked. The fear is that since non-Japanese aren't expected to speak Japanese well at all, there could be misunderstandings, which could get rough at a brothel. i.e, A customer expecting full-service at a pink salon (usually only bl*wjobs there), etc. That and us large gaijin being too big or strong and hurting the small Japanese girls accidentally ^^
(ID #330481) Posted on 2008/10/11 10:53
Hmm...Well what if a European man knows japanese? Is it ok then?
(ID #330497) Posted on 2008/10/11 11:03
From what I've been told, talking in Japanese (showing that you understand it) should get one in into most "Japanese only" places. I never did actually find one that had a problem with gaijin in Tokyo though, so not speaking from experience.
(ID #330507) Posted on 2008/10/11 11:09
are you suggesting you want to visit a pink salon? :P
(ID #330518) Posted on 2008/10/11 11:19
No... Well, sono.._.
(ID #330540) Posted on 2008/10/11 11:47
Telecommunications engineer
"Us large gaijin being too big or strong"... Reminds me of this friend who has been to China. 2 meters tall, long beard, muscular, all surrounded by 1.50 meter midgets :D
(ID #330950) Posted on 2008/10/11 18:48
Physical Therapist
I guess they are afraid that the stupid gaijin would mess up the cafe with bad behavior like taking photos and crap?Its bad either way LOL how does a german themed Pub look like i wonder?Probably pretty bavarian. There was their chance to get a genuine german in their pub and they throw him out....
(ID #330467) Posted on 2008/10/11 10:47
Extremely Poor College Student
if a non-japanese asian walks in there can they tell the difference?
(ID #330470) Posted on 2008/10/11 10:48
I'm not asian, but even I can tell the differences between different asian origins. I'm sure they can too.
(ID #330489) Posted on 2008/10/11 10:59
It's funny you should mention that. I live in California, and I can't tell if someone is from Alaska or from Maine just by looking at them. Or if they're from Florida or California. I have difficulty distinguishing between the various Asian peoples just by looks (discounting clothing variances), and I really make an effort. Do I have bad vision or am I just stupid? How can I educate myself on this?
(ID #331388) Posted on 2008/10/12 08:20
Oh dude, coolbeans - another Sacramento resident. If you're trying to trace their origins location wise, good luck. I can't tell the difference either - with the advent of the Internet and globalization, there isn't always a surefire way to tell where someone's from. You can get hints, though - eg, Californians wearing certain apparel you wouldn't see Alaskans wearing. Now, if you're trying to spot the difference between Asian ethnicities, you just have to be familiar with the usual appearance traits. Filipinos, for example, tend to have darker skin and flatter, squashed noses (I have one o_o). It's even more confusing nowadays because there's a lot of mixed Asians - eg, half Japanese, half Chinese. Here, check this out. http://www.alllooksame.com/exam_room.php I thought I was decent at telling Asian people's ethnicities just by looking at them, and I didn't do too bad on those tests. However, I screwed up terribly on everything else :D
(ID #331876) Posted on 2008/10/12 18:40
Student; wants a job T_T
Yup, there are differences, but I'm guessing if you happen to look Japanese-ish and speak fluently you might be able to get away with it.
(ID #330528) Posted on 2008/10/11 11:28
People who say there are true differences are usually full of it. The only noticeable differences are in culture and tradition. For any rule you think of someone else can think of so many exceptions that to call it a rule would be silly. For a poignant example, look at Japanese-Koreans. If they want to avoid discrimination they don't tell people they're Korean. People can't tell. There are movies about it. Also, I have several Asian friends who get mistaken for Japanese people. Based on this evidence, I imagine that any identification of different Asians is based on mannerisms more than facial structure or whatever you want to come up with.
(ID #330602) Posted on 2008/10/11 12:51
what they say is that the longer you deal with people from a certain nationality, the easier for you to spot them. I have east timorese classmate I could not even distinguish them from each other until I was told one of them was actually cambodian. On the other hand, my uni has a lot of students with half-chinese origins and we also have korean students. I can tell them apart even by looking...and its seen not because of their appearance but by how the move about it campus. I was even stopped once in thailand because I was thought to be a vietnamese illegally crossing borders @_@;; So I fully agree with your answer :)
(ID #331114) Posted on 2008/10/12 00:22
Well, I do think there are true differences. However, just because there are true differences doesn't mean it is reliable mechanism. My wife is Japanese and is often mistaken for Korean, but I would say that the physical appearance of Koreans and Japanese is closer to each other than, say, mainland Chinese or Southeast Asians. Sorry, I don't mean for this to sound like a racial comment. I don't disagree that often appearance is not enough to tell for sure. My wife and I kind of play it as a game sometimes. Guess the nationality and then listen to the language used. I just think it's a little pointless to say there are no true differences. Are you going to claim that there are no differences between Asians and Caucasians? Are you going to claim that there are no differences between Caucasians from different areas? Of course there are genetic differences. However, using that differences to judge someone is what is wrong. Ah well, sorry, didn't mean to lapse into some kind of diatribe.
(ID #331180) Posted on 2008/10/12 01:33
The genetic differences between different "races" are so minute that scientists do not accept the concept of "race" as valid anymore. Obviously there are external differences -- Oriental people have black hair, epicanthic folds to the eye and usually dark irises. These kind of differences allow us to peg someone as asian, oriental, caucasian etc. As for telling apart Koreans from Chinese from Japanese, take the test at http://www.alllooksame.com/
(ID #331331) Posted on 2008/10/12 05:57
I wouldnt be mad at it if I encountered a sign like that. I mean, I know japan is a xenophobic country, and I bet you there is not even a "civil right" group that is even big enough to make a stand on these signs since nobody is bothered by it, again because japan is a xenophobic country. Now if this was anywhere else in the world, more specifically the US, things will be bonkers up every goverment crack. Here in Philadelphia, a famously known cheesesteak shop putted a sign saying when ordering, order in english ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geno's_Steaks ). This sign was so controversial in the tri-state region.
(ID #330480) Posted on 2008/10/11 10:53
It's a bit ridiculous. I'm not one of those people who thinks that the US is not a monolingual country and that we do not have an official language for a reason. English is the common language, but in such a multi-cultural/multi-lingual country we should not attack or discriminate against people based on how well they speak English.
(ID #330755) Posted on 2008/10/11 14:48
If I saw a "Japanese only" sign here, I would have to assume they didn't do a whole lot of business. No, I know what you meant!
(ID #330483) Posted on 2008/10/11 10:57
Heh, there's this club in Torrance nestled in a Japanese shopping center. There's a delicious ramen place nearby that I used to go to a lot when I was living in Los Angeles. The club always looked like the sort of expatriate place that I suspected might turn you away at the door if you weren't Japanese. :)
(ID #331185) Posted on 2008/10/12 01:36
Eh...Racism imo. Again, probably don't want to deal with problems brought by westerners. For example in China, government operated hotels does not allow foreigners to stay, foreigners must find international hotels like Hyatt, Sheraton, etc
(ID #330485) Posted on 2008/10/11 10:58
Quite a while ago I was dating a girl from China and I remember staying in quite a few hotels that were not specific foreign chains. I highly doubt you can even find any international hotels in a few of the places I went. Now, she always did the negotiations over the room price (since advertised prices are pretty much always flexible), so perhaps that was the reason. It would be pretty hard to book a room at most of those places without mastery of Chinese.
(ID #331191) Posted on 2008/10/12 01:41
Restrictions applies to state operated hotels, private cos will do anything if it makes money. Yea, Prices in China is generally all very flexible, the cost is just very very low.
(ID #331206) Posted on 2008/10/12 01:56
funny isnt it that if that sign was displayed in aus it would be considered as racism but maybe in japan its usaually reffered back to some cultural difference, who knows these days? i think the line between this racisim or culture difference is so merged that its become a common ideal that continues to present itself
(ID #330486) Posted on 2008/10/11 10:58
Mechanical Engineering student
That's just mean T_T Then again I don't really blame them for it x_x
(ID #330487) Posted on 2008/10/11 10:58
While I don't see those types of signs in the U.S. (since it'd be illegal), I did see a lot of stores in rural Alabama with Confederate flags and KKK support posters/stickers in their windows. It was a different way of letting you know who was welcome and who wasn't. Caveat: I'm not saying Alabama is the only state with this. It's just the last state I lived in prior to moving to California, so those memories are still fresh.
(ID #330490) Posted on 2008/10/11 11:00
Im a black guy thinking about living and working in japan like Danny..and i seriously worry about these things, I suppose i will be turned down lots of times before i can get a job.
(ID #330495) Posted on 2008/10/11 11:02
I worry to. But I wonder if white people and black people have the same problem - just NOT asian.
(ID #330503) Posted on 2008/10/11 11:07
Send me an e-mail, and I'll put you in touch with a friend (fellow black guy) who opened up his own business in Japan, and was a TV comedian there for a few years, too. Maybe he can give you a few pointers. ^^
(ID #330511) Posted on 2008/10/11 11:12
Oh really thanks..What kind of business does he have? E-mail = little-greg@hotmail.com
(ID #330525) Posted on 2008/10/11 11:26
He has (had?) an import/export business he ran out of Osaka, then Tokyo. I think he's still got it, but not certain (I'll have to ask). He lived in Japan for 18 years, though, so he knows his way around pretty well. ^^
(ID #330612) Posted on 2008/10/11 12:57
I can see why... not for the fact that your simply black, but because of the fact that Japan is mostly a homogenous society (meaning they usually have one race, one lannguage, etc.) and simply seeing a man of color in the streets of Tokyo would simply baffle people. It's happened in China. Sorry if this comes off as offensive.
(ID #332536) Posted on 2008/10/13 10:24
WebDesign, Coding, Administration
Stuff like that is the only thing i would actually fear there mhh... So i guess spoting such a sign on a shop or restaurant i would like to use would leave me behind pretty much sad. :( I mean, if it's just because they have no english speaking staff - they could write something like "only japanese language, sorry" or alike - least that would be a lot less offending and not look like racism.
(ID #330496) Posted on 2008/10/11 11:03