Anime Fansub Documentary

Watched the videos; read the review.  I agree and disagree with parts of both.  

Regardless of my personal opinions on their finer points, though, I think the ultimate point regarding fansubbed anime is that it's FREE!  The written review pointed this out, too.  If you're that hard up over how someone fansubs an anime, then you can a) buy the dvd when it comes out, b) find a different fansubber, or c) download a raw, break out a dictionary, and sub it yourself.  

I've seen some crappy fansubs in my time (and I've been watching anime since the '70s), and I've even made fun of some subbers' attempts.  However, I've never been unappreciative of the folk who at least try to get me the latest and greatest in anime.

My two yen on the matter...^_^

(ID #204324) Posted on 2008/06/04 16:57

reply to tenrou's comment

well~ but i think that could persuade people to go purchase original DVDs..like i did...

fansubs's anime just allows people to watch them as soon as the anime is shown in Japan...
the others? I dont care..

When I get something for free, I dont complain ..though I do donate to them~sometimes

(ID #204334) Posted on 2008/06/04 17:33

reply to Final Fantasy Freak Ein's comment

Well, I have to say I agree with this guy. If I wanted to learn Japanese language appreciation I would've just attended Japanese class instead. I know that fansubs are free and you can't really complain because of that (beggars can't be choosers) but the thing is people have done better and non-intrusive fansubbing before using archaic equipment. Ah yes, the VHS days........
If they did it right, why not our generation? I also definitely agree on the point in compiling notes on a text file rather than forcing them onto the screen which is a big distraction. I mean it won't be hard to do anyway, just type it and save it as a text file rather than type it then time it into the video then set it, etc.... 

(ID #204340) Posted on 2008/06/04 17:52

reply to Karl's comment

I do agree with some of the points the creator of the video mention. However, I do respect the labor of the fansubs who take their time ad effort to bring us translate anime. Japanese is foreign language to most of us so without the fansub, nobody can't get there hand on the latest anime.Though the problem about the credit of the fansub and translator is true and need to fix, it show our the respect to the creator. Great respect to all the fansubs and traslators out there. Keep up the good work guy!!!

(ID #204355) Posted on 2008/06/04 18:45

reply to lazycat123's comment

Just watched the video and I have to agree it has some good points. Lotr, SW, last samurai remakes were awesome:D

To keep it simple:
Stuff I agree with

- remarks in seperate file: in manga some scanalators put their explanation in a seperate image as well
- word explanations: not many ppl speak German in Japan I gues so if an organization has a german name it's not meant to be understood, if I want to know it's meaning I look it up on wiki.  It can ruin the feeling of an anime palying in an imaginary setting if I'm reminded that the city's name is the old roman name for London
- attack names: subbers might think leaving the Japanese name of an attck makes it sound more mysterious, but names are meant to describe something, they are no incantations or magic words, even if it sounds plainer it's still better to know the meaning
- credits over staff: I appreciate subbers' work, and agree they should put their names in the anime but not over the original stuff, that's just disrespectful
- flashy karaoke subs: you can't sing a song if the word you are meant to sing is flashing, jumping or dissapearing

stuff I'd like to add:

- fonts: I think the solutionis not going back to the old white on black subs, but find a way somewherein the middle: different colours can show if someone is thinking or saying something, or if someone in the background is talking. In certain situations bigger letters or bright colours can add to the meaning but it shouldn't be overdone.
- honorifics, some japanese culture: I have mixed feelings about these. On one hand you can learns about culture wich is interesting, and learn to use different honorifics and words fo I, you etc. On the other hand you can always look up what a daimyo is if you want and you can't read the notes and the sub and watch the anime at the same time, and stopping every time is painstaking.

Otaking has made some good points in this vid, also liked the presentation of it and as someone who would like to study translation I agree with what he said. A translator's job is to communicate the meaning of a text in a foreign language not just translating words. The hard part of translating is exactly the part subbers sometimes miss, translating the ideas behind the text or else everyone with a dictionary could do it.
However I have to say that fansubs are there to bring you an anime faster, I'm also greatful for that and appreciate theri work. There is not always time for finding the best solution, so its speed over quality. Especially if groups are competeing with each other, when taking up the same series as an other other group is thoght of as starting a competition, messing with each other. In the old days there were less groups so there was no competition in speed, an no showing off with your credits (and no v2 of episodes).
So keep up the good work but listen to some of the things in the video.
(might have got a bit long, sorry :S)

(ID #204423) Posted on 2008/06/04 21:01

reply to &re:)'s comment

Okay, I REALLY don't like to a troll and call people "retarded", "idiots" or "stupid" as an argument because in my eyes, it's just reflects on me.

BUT, some of these arguments are really stupid, I'll list 2 main ones and say why, in my opinion, is just nit picking.

Honorifics - When you include honorific like 'oneesama' or other stuff like 'aniki', it's not because the fansubber wants to sounds like a weeboo, it adds to the character of the person saying it. If someone respects another person a lot, e.g. a younger sibling respects and looks up to his/her older brother, they will use "oniisama" and Japanese people will immediately understand what the relationship is like. In English we have no way of referring to other people in a way to show what we think of them.

Superimposed subtitles - How can you argue against this?!!?!? Have you seen DVDs? It's hard to tell which subtitle belongs to which sign!
I CANNOT STRESS ENOUGH, fansubbers are not doing it so you "think" those subs are part of the original animation, it's so you know where that particular subtitle is translating.
-
A main example he used was Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei, now this anime has LOADS of hidden meaning WRITTEN everywhere which you are not suppose to read while reading the subtitles. I'm sure even native a Japanese speaker  couldn't read all of it because of the speed in which they disappear, they are for those who have the patience to go back and freeze frame. Sure you can argue that you can put it on a separate file and read it later, but by then it's all so out of context you don't even remember the atmosphere of the scene or what it was even about. And I'm not kidding when I saw there a lot, It would have to be 100 pages of documentation.

As for attack names, I like it when they include both the Japanese name and a translation. It's not like it's an entire sentence, if you can't read two attacks then there's something wrong with you.

/rant

(ID #204510) Posted on 2008/06/04 23:31

reply to nya-chama's comment

*Trans-Rant mode on*

That gave me plenty to think about. The video did address some of the text problems in general.

I share the same view about the "ore" and stuff. I mean, sure, they might be helpful for first-timers, but for how long? Probably not longer than the first three episodes. After watching a series the viewer should as least get it that the little girl's referring to her big brother just from the placement of the words. And the "I... I!" thing..., Ok, while I don't mind, like the video said, it's not GRAMMATICALLY correct. For all we know they might be blaming the fall in English standards on anime next.

And regarding that credits thing... Ok, raise your hands people; how many of you listen to anime songs wanting to know what the words are? I enjoy them because of what they are; I'd admit one of the reasons I'm trying to get into a Japanese language class is so that I can understand what they're singing about without diverting my eyes from the OP sequence.

Then again none of the above matter much in lieu of what's next. To me, at least.

*sound of engine whining gets higher*

The screen has room for only ONE title; it sure as -blam- hell isn't for the fansubber group's name. This is a matter of respect, and as an Asian it's bugged me for a long time; put your credits right at the end of the anime if you say you are doing the community a service. DO NOT! Paste them all over the opening and ending sequence! You DO NOT use your 1337 skillz to paste flowery text over the ending sequence if it is supposed to convey a feeling of peacefulness! You DO NOT make your group title's size on-screen anything larger than 1/16 of the anime title's size; and put your names BELOW the production crews', definitely not on top or even amongst them! Image what would the director say if he saw that. If fansubbers are as pro-Japanese culture as they claim, they should know the protocols for this. 

*whining sounds fades away*

But regarding that "text on board that is carved" thingy... I cannot agree. Viewers of anime nowadays are not only fans who have any understanding of the written or verbal language, but friends of said fans who have absolutely NO experience in anime. I for one find them rather informative most of the time. But maybe for anime that have all sorts of puns written in the background like, they might want to do tone down a bit. But then, fansubbers are still doing the service everyone needs, so a really good measure of credit should still be given. Just please, watch the font sizes of your group credits.  

*Trans-Rant Mode off* 
*falls of chair*

... I don't see any "fire wars" over this...

(ID #204575) Posted on 2008/06/05 01:31

reply to radical anime fan's comment

we always want the best in everything don't we?
the points that you raise are actually very good but seriously, fansubs are free, so don't complain.
either way i think that documentary is good because now fansub groups can take into consideration what they can do better but when things are explained on the top of the screen i would pause and read it.  if someone made a separate file, i would NEVER reaad it.

it's nice to know that you appreciate the fansubs done back in the days but the style and font used nowadays is a lot better and more fitting to the anime itself.  anyways, they are free, i appreciate everything fansubbers do =)

(ID #204662) Posted on 2008/06/05 03:44

reply to moochi's comment

I think I'm rooting for anime subbers now than then... Maybe it's because I was introduced to anime later...




I do like the subs for the OP and ED songs... But some try to make it too karaoke-like, it becomes unreadable...

(ID #204676) Posted on 2008/06/05 03:58

reply to lostandfound's comment

Oops... I think I use the spacebar a little too much? My bad!

(ID #204678) Posted on 2008/06/05 03:59

reply to lostandfound's comment

I don't really want to join in this debate, but I just wanted to note how annoyed I was at the examples he used. The One Piece ones in particular - those were grossly exaggerated and definitely the worst of the worst. In most cases fansubs are never that bad. The biting remarks make it funny, but also makes the video ranty and "unprofessional". Not that anyone really expected a professional documentary, but it really detracts from his arguments when he seems so angry, ranty and biased.

(ID #204837) Posted on 2008/06/05 09:10

reply to litokid's comment

i agree with a lot the points otaking makes, but unfortunately, there's just too many issues here to make an absolute argument either way. for example, lots of the arguments are rendered moot if you change the target audience.  if you're translating for a group of japan/japanese enthusiasts who are using the anime as a vehicle for improving their language skill/cultural understanding, well i'd say having the explanations everywhere is the perfect solution. otaking argues from a more... artistic? perspective - as a viewer of an artistic medium, the fansubs fail to deliver a comparable experience.  both seem like valid goals to me.

some of the other points are less up for debate... i would tend to agree that the flashy animated/colored subtitles for special moves or whatnot have no place... the character's voice conveys the emotion, not super imposed text. 

watching/reading all this makes me glad i learned japanese ^_^;;;  raws for me! :P 

(ID #204868) Posted on 2008/06/05 10:02

reply to meronpan's comment