I really don't see what the big deal is about the naked body. I could never grasp why something that is beautiful and is a fundamental requirement to the continued existence of humanity needs to be covered up and hidden away.
hmm i guess that this problem lies with the shallow understanding most people have of the world of otakuism. they perceived it all to be childish fun enjoyed by adults and when they see naked figures or NSFW pics they feel that it is perverted and just plain wrong. For example, Kasukabe-san's reaction when Madarame explains otakuism to her in Genshiken season 1(ep2 i guess)
If it weren't for the need to keep ourselves warm, humans would never have invented clothing and we'd all be walking around naked right now. Much of my views on things, by the vast majority of society in this country, are viewed is inappropriate. Centrally though, it's just a matter of people not fully understanding human nature and thinking something is wrong simply because they don't understand it. I personally make a point of trying everything that isn't illegal for myself so I can properly understand what the meaning is behind it, rather than just accepting someone else's biased and likely uneducated opinion of it.
It would take a while to get used to, but no problems here. As long as otaku public fapping stays forbiden, no problems! :P I may sound kinda square-ish here, but I think some things are still best left permited strictly behind closed doors.
there's a fine line between art and pornography i have no idea if religion has got to do with it but i think being in a roman catholic country, i don't think people wouldn't mind having a naked 1/1 Sonsaku figure and if there is one, someone somewhere who has a closed, narrow and shallow mind will protest and stop at nothing and even use the name of the Christian God just to get rid of what they consider as "pornography" i on the other hand wouldn't mind a naked 1/1 Sonsaku figure in public and if ever i have my own building, i'll just place it inside my building and marvel at the art ^__^
I agree... Although I think Sonsaku looks great I don't think it would be appropriate. The Iron Girl is more classical art where the anime chick is more provocative and new age. Hard for society to swallow controversial ideas that are new...LOL!!
I got another question (take this as retorical or not): would a statue of sonsaku be any more acceptable if it were also sculpted in iron (or whatever non-flesh colour material) and posted in a plainly non-sexual pose? I think context plays a lot in deciding what is NSFW.
ZB's wife posting: One might at first think, "well the iron lady has more artistic merit. The Sonsaku is made purely for titillation (pun intended)," but then one needs to remember that the following art works, now considered "fine art", were created 150 years ago, by men, also for their pornographic qualities: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Ingre,_Grande_Odalisque.jpg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Manet%2C_Edouard_-_Le_D%C3%A9jeuner_sur_l%27Herbe_%28The_Picnic%29_%281%29.jpg /art history lesson ^_^
I would mind because Ikkitousen wasn't very good.
Anyone watches the simpsons back in the 90's there's an episode that covers (pun not intended) this. somewhere in the second season titled "itchy, scratchy and marge". In the end Marge says something like, it is hypocritical to be against one form of expression and support another. ^^ just my two pennies worth on the subject.
oh, it might be important to mention that on the episode, folks of springfield wanted to put jeans on Michelangelo's reinassance statue: David.
My parents own a shop and frequently we get these kinds of statues. I get very annoyed that these things are in a public mall... and it irked me for a bit because I had to move these things in and out of the shop... Like at one point, in order to move one of he statues out, I had "her" in a position on the cart that shows off the one heck of a moon. Talk about full moons, heavy white plaster or something of the sort; didn't like the stares and lulz (now I'm just used to it). I really appreciate some sort of censorship like that Mirai mark. Me, I prefer a toga party. It works like a charm. As for the David statue we have... I wish I actually had jeans for him. That'd be cool and lolz, no doubt. But in the meanwhile, we're stuck with a loincloth.
It's a rock. What's the big deal?
In France, you can see naked bodies everywhere like poster advertising in the streets (bus stop, on buildings) for body products, perfum, lingery etc... No sexual meaning (most of the time) but just beauty. It is pretty casual for french people and for most of the latin culture I guess. Nudes are the pinacle of art: think about the David by Michelangelo, this painting by Courbet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%27Origine_du_monde) which made a big scandal but which is now displayed in museum, or more recetly, the work of Spencer Tunik (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spencer_Tunick)... I personnaly think it is a way to educate society (children) and to de-mystifize the human body and sexuallity. As consequences, no need to censure movies (eg. "Lust, Caution" has no age limit in France, but is rated R21 in S'pore !) or have sex at 14. Of course you have to protect children but at least, it is not taboo, people get educated enough. In singapore, on the other hand, no tits anyhere !
For me it would depend on the pose. I mean, wouldn't we all gag if there were naked statues of Paris Hilton or Brittney Spears' in their most lewd or disgusting poses?
Bellow links without the ")" should work better: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%27Origine_du_monde http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spencer_Tunick Sorry '~'
In down town Calgary, there are these huge bronze status, they are like really really skinny man and women, they all got weird looking stuff hanging out
I don't think there's anything like this in Los Angeles. I definately wouldn't mind if they put up 1:1 statues of Sonsaku, I'd be eating lunch there every day.
I guess it's simply because figures like Sonsaku hasn't been around for longer or hasn't been socialized as much as things like that statue? I mean, legend like Michaelangelo made a naked man statue (was it David?), and that probably has some impact on how people on general view naked statue.
There's like naked statues around my campus and no one is complaining...Yes on Sonsaku...
To clarify I meant I'd like a 1/1 Sonsaku very much...
Interesting story: There was an art contest when I was in High School, and for the project I did a picture of an room full of equipment and monitors, with a glowing pad in the center, underneath huge rods and cables hanging from the ceiling. In the center, there are two figures glowing like ephemreal specters.. naked. Now, Im in the highest art level, in a college credited class, submitting artwork into a NATIONAl competition. My teacher refused to submit it (since only one person from the class was allowed).. the person that was allowed, refused to submit theirs saying it would be a shame not to submit mine. The teacher finally relented and submitted it, saying there is no way it will win because it has a naked man and woman in the picture. So not only did it win the state competition (bite me teach) it won the national competition! I saw these naked figures as artwork, the teacher saw them as NSFartwork.
End result, we are all grownups here, or almost.. even if we dont act like it. Beauty is beauty and art is art. If someone doesnt like it then go sit in a corner and cry. I just dont want to hear it.
hey Dragun, sounds like an interesting painting, you got a photo link of it?
art is art and ero is ero, people will complain no matter what.
A 1/1 scale of Hakufu sounds really good! Actually, im turning in a casted off picture of Hakufu for my Photography Project tomorrow. Its a slide film so it will be in the projector. i wonder what my class would say? ^^; On topic, to me, figure IS art. I mean come on, It is a sculpture! Sculpture is art right? I believe so. On the other note, isn't the first people on Earth, Adam and Eve, naked? So i don't get why people get offended by naked sculptures and naked people?
What bugs me the most in most societies is that contradictory view on sexuality and nudity. Erotism is obviously something that should not be accessible to children to not corrupt their still immature mind, they say (For example,the killer question on how offspring is created is generally answered with a big lie or distant comparison). However, at least two points destroy that logic: - The first one is art. It is funny to see that certain Roman and Greek gods were barely clothed (Aphrodite/Venus being the most obvious example), as well as athletes and that representations of sexuality were not much hidden at times. You just can't ignore that when you study those civilizations, right? - The second one is the representation of women in media. Some commercials are of course right to show some human skin (Do you take a bath in swimwear?) while others are completely going off the (Mirai) mark. Using scantily clad and well-built (fake? superficial?) people to sell a certain product implies a created connection between our earthly desires for sexuality and impulsive purchase. Funny isn't it? Those commercials are even aired at peak hours, so "protecting fragile people from impulses" becomes quite out of the question. Anyway, even if kids are more or less banned to be in contact with erotic and/or pornographic content, a good part of them "finely" do get back to it during adolescence, sometimes with disastrous consequences. Lost in my logic? Well, I just wanted to show how things can sometimes be accepted and tolerated in certain conditions, while being subject to controversy and public argument in others. Quite a debate on life and sexuality, on how we should deny or accept the part of us that belongs to nature (as living beings with sexual reproduction) and the ideas of shame and beauty that are associated with that.
Marvin, I wish I did. Its hanging in a frame at my parents house. They wouldnt let me take it when I bought my own place. If anyone is interested I can go snap a pic of it and post it somewhere.
And I think that the differentiation between ero and art is the message implied behind the sculpture/painting/photo/drawing, etc. You will always have people going back at you for random reasons anyway... Ignorance, confusion, cultural mentalities, values, attitudes and beliefs are the main points to consider when creating or advertising something with certain nakedness.
D_Blade, D'accord. When I went to Italy, there were nude statues of men and women everywhere. It was art, the most amazing artwork of its time.. from Bernini, to Michelangelo, and even Raphael. If someone considers this Ero, or pornographic.. you then there is nothing wrong with you that reincarnation cant fix. This is why I agree with Danny showing nude pictures.. its natural, and theres nothing wrong with it. Unless you are very overweight.. or a guy.. or .. old. Hmmmm. Lol, j/k
Well DRAGUN, the most crucial part in joining one side or the other is education (Sometimes conditioning takes its place). If you have been told by your parents, religion, the community, etc. that nudity is evil and you never question it, go against it, accept that it is part of life or let others go their merry way, chances are that you will go against any representation of human people with some lack of clothes. On the other side, if you have learned that sexuality is okay in certain conditions and not in others, morality and respect come into play. Quite some headache-inducing debate, I reckon. ^^;
When talking about cultural differences like this, I always think about the old saying "when in rome, act like the romans"
Is this what encourages people to streak? I know it doesn't where I come from. lol D_Blade, sexuality is one thing and it can be displayed as art without much being said. But there's a line between a human displaying it in public; where some see it as indecent rather than just plain wrong, and practicing it in the privacy of one's home (or other locale in private); which is accepted so that others won't have to witness such intimate acts. Like I always say, "Whatever turns you on..."
i want sonsaku 1:1 in my room XD
Jonny Boy, of course you're right, unless you shout on top of all roofs that sexuality is wrong and you're a perverted beast. Ah, hypocrisy, when you plague our world... ;)
Johnny boy, The thing is, that line between art and naughtiness seems to differ between cultures. Like in Arab where women must wear mask that covers their entire face but the eyes, and wear very long gown that covers their entire body.
Are you out of your mind? If they put a 1/1 figure of Sonsaku in public, I'll be the first one to grab it and bring it to my home... I don't think there's any wrong in putting statues of naked guys or girls in public but it will be really awkward... People think it is wrong because they don't trully understand or don't even want to try to understand it... If the public don't mind seeing statues/sculptures of naked guys/gals then 1/1 figures of Sonsaku or any other character is acceptable right? Both are considered art right? I guess some will still deny that figures are art but I think anime/manga/figures should also be considered art/an artform because we are passionate about them just like artists are passionate about drawing naked people... Do I even make sense?
OK.. so maybe when most baby boomer and generation X members retires from their roles in the society, and people from generation Y start to replace them, we'll have 1:1 figure on Sonsaku in public. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generation_x http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baby_boomer
I think that naked sculptures can be either consider as art or ero, depending on how an individual views it. If one has a purely peverted mind, even normal sculptures can be thought of as something ero.
It is sad that depictions of violence are much more readily accepted then nudity (I am not refering to pornography). be it in art, movies or television.
I guess it's really simple for me to decide. If get if turns me on then its consider NSFW If it doesnt then its SFW In this case, its pretty obvious. 1/1 Sonsaku would definitely be a "turn on" , while something like iron lady will not be at all. Not even a single bit.
iMM I would just like to mention that there are numbers of places where depiction of violence isn't readily accepted, such as in Indonesia. Do you know that we can't have Berserk (Kentaro Miura) published legally here? Strangely though, we can have Claymore (Norihiri Yagi) published legally.. I had arguments with the publisher company (elex media komputindo) in their forum, and made the moderators there mad, because I was so stubborn and keep insisting them to publish Berserk.
what does NSFW mean?
@ nara NSFW = "not safe for work" basically something you shouldn't watch on your laptop when your boss could be looking over your shoulder. @ Benjamin Takeyo is it also in indonesia that the public display of cannons and other war equipment, that is common place in many countries in europe, would be considered extremely offensive? Maybe European culture is still liberal towards nude statues cause of the half-naked guy displayed in churches, that wouldn't be considered sexual for most people.. ^^;
@random hiki Never heard of cannon or any other war-equipment displays being offensive here, well, we actually fire cannons (13 times if I remember) to welcome Vladimir Putin in Jakarta during his visit there.
Why is a naked body considered "obscene" per se in some places? On the other hand, you can't compare the naked lady statue with the Sonsaku figure. The Sonsaku figure clearly has an "erotic" pose an attitude (wich may be be seen as "obscene" by some people), the naked lady is just a naked woman in a cool pose, like if she is celebrating life. This "nudity is wrong for kids" debate that pops in from time to time makes me think that there's something wrong about not having a problem with kids seeing pools of blood or violence on the screen but being horrified because of them seeing a naked body, or even just a part of a naked body. I remember the stupid debate about the Janet Jackson "wardrobe malfunction" incident or the censorship in japan with depiction of genitals.
I say, the more nudity the better. It's about time humans got over their silly body taboos.
Moral fags will go nuts if such statues were erected in my country.
Hangmen13, Yeah, I understand, there are lotsa moral fags too here, in Indonesia. I don't know why. Is it because our countries are both muslim?
i've never seen one with my own eyes and also exactly in front of me. but not from other media(like this one). but wtf is that. well i know women are the most beautiful thing in the world but they're not supposed becomes subject for male. it's not appropriate. if u ask me it's better not using iron but using the same material used for action figure and of course sexy sexyer and sexiest pose. u may think i'm weird saying like this but i don't like doing halfway( in this case just naked, even in detail) i like more vulgar and more through.
ブロンズ像（芸術品）>>>>>>>>超えられない壁>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>アニメフィギュア（商業品） 壁は高いよ。m9(^Д^)プギャー
I consider those naked statues and oil paintings ancient porn. Its not like they dont wear clothes back in those times so why paint/sculpt naked bodies? Because they know sex sells and since printing magazines where not available at that time (until China exported the printing skill to the west) so oil painting and statues would just have to do the job.
I think the most famous naked subjects in the beginning of oil painting were adam and eve.
i didn't see any naked female statues in singapore (or probably i didn't explore singapore much, any other singaporean care to correct me?). i guess it might raise concerns if there are naked female statues around outdoors over here. afterall singapore is still a pretty conservative country.
@Kururu_luva: I agree with your explanation, but I wouldn't have put in the same way, lol. Basically I think it depends on the context of the work. If the original purpose is to entice, then I wouldn't want it anywhere where I could see it. Otherwise, if it's to inform me of something, history, or otherwise, then I couldn't really argue against it. And even though medical texts and diagrams are 2d, couldn't you also compare them to 2d ero publications as you've compared the 3d subjects?
Britannian King Voice: The naked Sonsaku statues are a must-have! It is an order!! Seriously, the difference is that the iron lady is art from the past; you know, from the hands of a master, yadayada... Sonsaku is generally viewed as "just a figurine" by the public. Telling people who don't see anime/manga/figure sculpting/anything else that is new-age as a form of art is like I'm telling you: Hey, my Power Ranger Megazord is a work of art too! Display it! (Again in the Britannian King Voice)
Well im from denmark and there are aleast 3-4 statues in my town (and its not the capital town with the little mermaid) i know off with full frontal or a little leaf covering the genitals. I dont think theres anything wrong with it, though there certainly are some people the find it offensive. Usually i suppose it is because the mermaid and/or the ohter statues are replicas or orginals of a famous and commonly accept artist (like thorvald or ohter famous ancient sculptors) and i do also beleive that they give of another image than sonsakfu would, since they somehow dont seem to try and pull attention to the fact they are naked, unlike sonsafu who clearly is. That being said i wouldn't mind a 1/1 scale figure of sonsafu in my town.
I wouldn't mind if a naked 1/1 Sonsaku statue would be placed in my town (hell, she can even stand in my yard XD), but I know a lot of people (especially elder religious people) would seriously complain. =_= We have two (or perhaps more, I don't know) statues in my town, a statue with a little girl on a pony and a statue with a man on a bull, but I don't know if they're naked since I've never looked closely to them. =S
Can I have Kanu as well? and while we're at it can we also add Ryofu, Ryomou etc.
I'd say it's all about the presentation of the naked object and how the people looks at the object. It's like putting up a 1/1 scale statue of kanou or other scantily clad naked figures in a town full of otakus and you won't see anybody complaining ^^
Danny - interesting that you should mention kids in the original post. I always wonder just what it is that we adults think we should be protecting kids from when it comes to the naked human form. Many of those same kids will go home and listen to Gangster Rap advocating rape, murder, gun violence, homophobia, etc. Personally, I'd rather have my kids viewing naked models than being corrupted by certain musical genres.
no i wouldn't mind!! i mean why should i mind?? it's just a statue right?
she make me long time!
The difference between the two is that statue is classed as art and a pvc figure isn't although that is not what i personaaly believe. They are both forms of art in my eyes.
In the Medieval and Renaissance periods, naked statues and paintings were not seen as anything bad. The prudish and puritanical ideas about nudity didn't really get started in Western civilization until the Victorian Era. I agree with Lunch. Kids shouldn't be taught that the human body is shameful, or that sexuality is wicked. That's unhealthy and delusional.
Did everyone know that the Sistine Chapel the Michelangelo painted was painted with nudes? Thats until some uptight clergyman decided that it had to be painted over to cover the naked forms. Michelangelo refused to do it and painted the clergyman being attacked by the demons in hell to forever immortilized. Nice.
*that Michelangelo painted.... sry.
It would be a disaster if something like this showing in the public. Not to mention if you live in ?Muslim countries.
Benjamin Takeyo: religion is one factor. Another is people's attitude. If people from a certain country is of a morally conservative society, chances are you won't see sculptures like those downtown, and any attempt of displaying it in public may attract anger and outrage. I personally think every country in Southeast Asia is conservative (maybe not Thailand?) not necessarily because of religion, but because they were not prepared to open up on objects or subjects related to sex and nudity. It'll probably take another generation or two to fix that and hopefully, with the rising attitude of liberalism in SE Asia's new generation, all that will change in the future. Even though I'm a Muslim myself, I'm quite open to these things, and I surely don't want a parliament filled with conservative 'village elders' in the future. (>__
Hangmen13, Yes, it's not necessarily caused by religion, but I believe religion plays a rather significant role here (in Indonesia and Malaysia). You know, how strict muslim can be in regards to display of human skin (that's not necessarily a bad thing though, in some cases it might be good).
There are many reasons for it probably from art the point there are naked sculptures everywhere in the world. hehe I person do not find it that shocking. If a kids see it, the most likely reaction they will get is that they do not understand it. lol I believe as an artist myself, this art work is created to create a reaction from a person. A shock treatment for those who do not like such thing been displayed in public place and create some sort of reaction. After all this is what art is about, reaction.
Well, I personally think that its a form of perception by different people. Just use a clean/healthy mindset to trea
