飛び降り JISATSU
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83)
Thu 2007/07/19 23:38
誰かが飛び込んだらしい。10分経つと一番前の車両のドアが開け、人を下ろした。体が電車の下に入ったため、血などがなかった。
イギリスに27年間住んでいましたが、飛び降り自殺は一回も聞いたことがない。イギリスの電車のスピードが遅いからかな。
So it actually happened when you where commuting? Never happened to me.
(ID #52034) Posted on 2007/07/19 23:39
Sheesh - I know we all love japan to bits, and wonder 'why the hell kill yourself if you live in Japan?!!?' but the place has its fair share of problems. Low pay, long work hours, bullying, pressure from family, stress - all things that can drive someone to suicide. But still, it could be worse - you could have terror attacks every 10 minutes or live somewhere really poor and underdeveloped. The general atmosphere and society of Japan is a lot more harmonious, pleasant and accommodating than a lot of places ive been to, and any would-be suiciders should be happy of that. Also, if youre gonna kill yourself, dont do it in front of a train! You will have thousands of delayed people cursing your name. Not a good way to go. Unless you have a grudge, of course. Glad there was no guts. I would freak out if someone jumped and splattered in front of me on the way to work...
(ID #52035) Posted on 2007/07/19 23:41
Brandon
That reminds me of the Japanese movie Suicide Club... sometimes its called Suicide Circle... either way, the movie is really messed up. And that is weird that Danny mentioned that was a popular way of suicide in Japan... not only was it in that movie, but it was in the anime Gantz. Cant think of anything else that i have seen that in. But thats messed up.
(ID #52036) Posted on 2007/07/19 23:46
wow...110.000 ??
(ID #52037) Posted on 2007/07/19 23:46
Self-employed
It's no secret Japan has a high suicide rate (30k + each year) but what a way to go ^^; This conjures up images of the movie Suicide Club & Gantz. Suicide Club is an awesome movie. I've only seen the Gantz anime and ehhh is all I have to say about it.
(ID #52038) Posted on 2007/07/19 23:46
Well only he/she knows why the reason the commit suicide, mostly the reasons in are because of money problems and sometimes is due to stress which happens a lot in big cities like Tokyo. Thankfully the suicide rate here is pretty low, we may not be a very optimistic country but we praise our lives above everything else.
(ID #52039) Posted on 2007/07/19 23:55
I am guessing that is one of the reasons they are installing automatic doors on the platforms here in Taiwan. I have not heard of it happening here, in Europe Fall seemed a "popular" time, don't believe they charged the family afterwards though..seems a bit rough...
(ID #52041) Posted on 2007/07/20 00:12
Policy & Research Officer
Late last year in Singapore, there were also a few cases of people jumping onto train tracks. But it normally occured in the peak hours when everyone was going to work, so it kinda pissed off losta people since they ended up late for work and had to take alternative transport. Anyway, last semester I briefly learnt about suicide in Japan, and I realised that there is even a book published on ways to successfully carry out a suicide. Its unbelievable bookstores actually sell that.
(ID #52046) Posted on 2007/07/20 00:31
Suicide is never a way to go. I hear it happens a lot to office workers due to the long hours and having never enough pay. I also heard high schoolers and university students do it due to bullying problems they have at school. Though to be honest...it has come to mind but I always end up realizing how stupid it is.
(ID #52047) Posted on 2007/07/20 00:33
Hmmm not just japan its a worldwide problem, cept it doesnt always make it into the mainstream news. Suicide is pointless, I'd rather live & do something useful ^^
(ID #52051) Posted on 2007/07/20 01:16
Everything
If they want to reduce the number of people doing it via the train, they should probably not make the family pay. Some of these guys probably think of it as a bonus, being able to stick it to a family that doesn't care. Have I ever thought about it? Sure, especially as a teenager. It was more of a curiousity than actually wanting to die.
(ID #52056) Posted on 2007/07/20 01:58
Aimless Traveler
There was a case in my country of a primary school boy from a poor family who committed suicide due to poverty and harsh bullying by his peers. It caused a lot of media sensation in my state several months ago.
(ID #52058) Posted on 2007/07/20 02:04
Suicidal thoughts? Each time I was truly depressed and lost about my own direction in life, I've wondered how I did turn to that, but there always was a force in me that said "Keep it up. You're lucky enough not to live in a place where you have to look for food/water to survive, where you can avoid people you can't stand and be with those who support you, etc.". So I am not fearing Death, but I'm not in a rush either to meet him early either. If you can go for new horizons, try and never look back. If it is about expectations from others and that they are unreasonable, screw them (sorry for the choice of words). As for what lies in the afterlife, I'm not eager to know. My time will come; the later the better. "Life is a game where the outcome is always the same: Your life ends". Ah well, no surprises, no worries there ;) Philosophy? No, simple words of one who wants to become a social counsellor one day ^_^
(ID #52059) Posted on 2007/07/20 02:10
Most stations in Hong Kong have the slide doors that go from roof to platform and open when the train door matches up with the slide doors. I'm pretty sure only a few stations lack that in Hong Kong. Here in Toronto, we don't have them but I haven't heard of many suicides. As for Taiwan, when I was there this summer, I only saw slide doors at Taipei Central station, they're not as tall as the ones in HK though.
(ID #52060) Posted on 2007/07/20 02:10
Troubleshooter, Universal Exports
I've always managed to stay positive, though there are times I have found myself very low in life. There is always one good thing about being on the bottom, the only direction up. Sure that sounds like a cliche, but I've seen some hard times. I've always refused to lie down and die. It's hard to say for women, but many men start to feel unneeded as they get older. When we are young we don't think of the abilities that come with our youth. Which is the way it should be. As you get older, it gets harder to keep up with the young guys. Many men often seem to have a problem with this feeling. Don't get me wrong I'm not justifying suicide. Just don't forget that it tough for some as they reach middle age. I guess what is important is keeping close to family and having both older and younger friends. People who feel they have a purpose in life are eager to live a long life.
(ID #52061) Posted on 2007/07/20 02:13
Please read "You're in a place where you can avoid people you can't stand and be with those who support you, etc." Ah, I really should readproof myself a bit more often. @Alafista Otaku: So there are recipe books on successful suicidal rites? That's insane, completely insane. And I'm sure some tried even as they were that desperate. We should fight for our lives... Or die trying. ^_^;
(ID #52062) Posted on 2007/07/20 02:18
hiaz..i guess it's common everywhere. like what akiraman said, last year was full of supermen/women-who-thought-they-can-stop-the-train-from -moving... ~.~ it cost one of my class to start late as someone supermaned himself during peak hours. and he's a foreigner. and i do have suicide thoughts. that was when i was young, like 11? I was stupid then. but hey, not now cos i've a goal in life. it makes life more fun than ever. or try this: Massugu GO!! LOL *wait...possible spelling error in massugo..lol
(ID #52064) Posted on 2007/07/20 02:26
@Tiny Red Man: But I thought that in Singapore you had those super glass walls and sliding doors (what kakit describes accurately in a comment below), which prevent people from going on the rails... (In France they also implemented that system in the "Ligne 14" which is the 14th metro line (state of the art one and one of the most recent). I was in your country when I was a kid. So was it on one metro line only? Are my memories playing some bad trick? Thanks in advance for your answer.
(ID #52068) Posted on 2007/07/20 02:38
working here is kinda hard..where u get to push alot.. the working culture here is fubar.. they normally dont take leaves.. the time they take leaves maybe when they r sick...some even come to work regradless they r sick.. everyday work until late nite.. working hard to get the overtime pay.. cant go back early even they got nothing to do..hell even the wife ask u to go back late.. alot of people here is mentally sick. but most of them dont even wanna visit the shrink! this is just fubar..
(ID #52069) Posted on 2007/07/20 02:40
VF-25 Pilot. Universariate Scholar.
I once thought of suicide back in high school when i was really low but thank goodness i didn't do it. When i think of it now, why would anyone think of taking away their one and only life? This might sound wrong, but i have the will to live because if i died, that would mean the end of anime, manga, eroge, figures and all the other good stuff in life. I once heard this somewhere, all happy families are the same, each unhappy family has its own story to tell. So, if you are feeling down, think about it. You are different, special, and one of a kind. Keep on fighting the good fight and never give in to despair!!
(ID #52071) Posted on 2007/07/20 02:45
Troubleshooter, Universal Exports
@3den, Yep, my fiancee has worked with people like that as well. She often works late hours on a regular basis. It's also not unusual for her and other to go to the office on the weekends because they know they have extra work to finish. The Japanese are just programed differently, just couldn't see westerners doing the same. If I say I feel bad about her working long hours, she often replies with something like I don't mind working. Then again I'm one who over works as well. Will probably do the same there. ^^; @Setsuna-san, Not at all, just shows you have a lot you want to experience and do before your time comes.
(ID #52072) Posted on 2007/07/20 03:10
Hajime Saito in Santiago of Chi...
Really not passed on mi mind.. Suicidarse es la forma mas facil y estupida de solucionar los problemas.. ah y lo que menos soluciona son los problemas.. Es de hacer notar el contexto japones, de presiones de la vida diaria y esas cosas.. que inciden en eso. Es una verdadera Lastima. =(
(ID #52073) Posted on 2007/07/20 03:13
Dragun in Arizona, USA
I dont think its unusual for "westerners" to work a lot of hours. A recent study indicated that only about 13% of the population actualy takes a vacation. I work six or seven days a week. There is no weekend in what I do, because working on comission, you need to work hard to make money. Then harder I work, the more I make, and I think that is the difference. I cant see working 80hrs a week and barely scraping by. I think its a common misconception that "westerners" dont work hard, and life is easy. The grass is always greener...
(ID #52075) Posted on 2007/07/20 03:21
Dang, i seen that in an anime, gantz. And yes it was a business man. I wonder why though. Suicide isnt the answer, seen it happened...
(ID #52076) Posted on 2007/07/20 03:24
I saw someone who had apparently jumped out of a building in Shinjiku. It quite a mess with police and the news reporters, and of course the body they had to clean up. Oh, and a onsen blew up too that day. Of course, that was the thing that made the news, but the suicide suck in my head since I actually saw where it happened. *rather glumly* I guess it wouldn't have made my trip complete without seeing a suicide.
(ID #52079) Posted on 2007/07/20 04:10
@ D_blade: onli some stations have the glass doors. Mainly the new ones. most suicide cases that occur are on older lines that doesnt have such doors. and lol, ur memories are still there. But if such cases occurs every now and then, then i believe the authorities will do something about it.
(ID #52081) Posted on 2007/07/20 05:26
icie in Sydney
Well we don't get a lot of train-related suicides here in Sydney, but the train system still has delays. 45 minutes for a suicide-related delay seems reasonable to me, when a train malfunction here can cause entire network delays of 3 hours or more.
(ID #52082) Posted on 2007/07/20 05:27
Japan is my favourite place in the world but like everywhere it does have it's down sides, high suicide rates seem to be one of them :( I'm lucky in that my job provides very little stress. I've never considered anything so drastic because fortunately I've never been that pissed off with life. If there's a worldwide ban on anime, videogames, food, beer, music, the internet and my wife then I might give it some thought!
(ID #52083) Posted on 2007/07/20 05:41
CG artist, Sunrise Emotion
3den, I agree with you. The working hours in Japan is really crazy compared to other countries. Can't believe I use to knock off at 6 when I was working in Singapore. I am lucky enough to be doing something I enjoy so the hours pass fast, but they aren't short. Many people die from work exhaustion here in Japan every year, and the stress related problems add to the suicide rate.
(ID #52086) Posted on 2007/07/20 06:31
Well so far for mu daydreaming..... As a matter of fact I'm often confronted with that kind of accidents??? I'm a staff member of our public transports company.....And believe it or not....we have to deal with that about once EVERY MONTH..is to say the effective suicides only .I'm not even taking in account the aborted attempts.Back here it affects all layers of society and can cause havoc during rush-hours. It's a popular way ...because most of them think it's radical...Forget it ...some of them survive...crippled for the rest of their lives...Awfull!! But I keep my fingers crossed...since the beginning of this month....not one yet.....
(ID #52091) Posted on 2007/07/20 09:12
Goman in Trier, Germany
Well, If I were a Salariman in Tokyo, the thought of suicide might cross my mind too. Long working hours, never getting a chance to be with your families, severe burnout symptoms and now that job securities and lifetime employment are on their way out, constant fear of restructuring. It's a dogs life in the Japanese workpool.
(ID #52092) Posted on 2007/07/20 09:58
i neva thought of suiciding but only becuz im scared of dieing lol
(ID #52093) Posted on 2007/07/20 10:01
Suicide never crossed my mind. Most of the people in the world have real life stress. Be a man and face your fear/stress. Even if you do want to suicide, why are you creating problems to others by doing such stunts? Go suicide elsewhere where there isn't much people you can bother. People do not want to care as the world is already stressful. I remember last year in Melbourne, a taiwanese student jump off from the apartment and landed close to my friend's balcony. She was so frightened and had to move from that apartment. You are given such a beautiful thing and yet you want to waste it by suiciding? Pathetic. Everyone has problems, are you that special Mr Suicide?
(ID #52095) Posted on 2007/07/20 10:27
I was thinking about this guy while reading the post. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9JcX2X7XnM Why would I want to commit suicide right now. Everythings goes well =)
(ID #52096) Posted on 2007/07/20 10:39
@Kirakun: Sometimes you have to understand the pain of others, even if suicide is the cowards' answer for some. I feel that modern societies have shut off some of our emotions so we can focus completely on performance and be able to endure difficulties without complaining. You see, even the simple idea of expressing your emotions (crying, feeling bliss and so on) in public is kind of forbidden (to avoid a public scare, I think). If you begin to shout out your happiness, people will start to see you as a loco-loco person. Same goes with your sadness... You can't show that in public, it's inappropriate. I am now thinking about the way we are socialized, I mean "programmed", and I'm feeling weird now. Ah well, it's how things go... Sorry for my rant.
(ID #52098) Posted on 2007/07/20 11:17
man... thats an unfortunate incident.. the last time i went to japan, the tour guide confirmed with us that the family indeed has to pay for the "clean-up" fee etc.
(ID #52100) Posted on 2007/07/20 11:18
Thats really sad to hear, its bad enough hearing about it ont he news, or int he newspaper, but to be in the train when it happens, thats even worse.
(ID #52102) Posted on 2007/07/20 11:46
@D_Blade Yes I understand. Yes I am harsh. The world is a cruel place to begin with it and of course at times it is tough to endure all these pains especially you lack the support and motivation to carry forward. What I am angry about is that these people are creating extra problems, fear and stress to the community by performing such stunts in the public. I give my sympathy to those who can't endure the pain but to suicide publicly, that disturbs me a lot.
(ID #52103) Posted on 2007/07/20 12:03
Looks like it happened on the Yamanote of all lines (the busiest train line in the world). Quite a costly delay I'd imagine, maybe the guy had a thing against JR ^^; I'm in Busan, S.Korea right now and the subway here has screen doors on all stations of line 3 and installing them for line 2 as well. But they don't really do good since people who are determined to commit suicide can simply find a station without screendoors. I've also seen screen doors on the yurikamome in Odaiba but those have rubber tires ;; It's good to know that you wouldn't have taken pictures of the dead body. I know there are plenty of those on the internet and whatnot but people who go looking for them make me sick. Never have myself and never will (same as with smoking)
(ID #52104) Posted on 2007/07/20 12:06
P Laskey
This is a popular sport in the UK as well. I was driving on the M25 motorway last month when I noticed some way ahead of me a person lying in the road. A van had stopped and the other traffic was slowing down - luckily I managed to get past. (Quickly). I found out later that an old man had chucked himself off the railway bridge there (I suppose he got fed up waiting for the generally late British trains). It's very hard to know how to deal with the problem of people wanting to top themselves.
(ID #52107) Posted on 2007/07/20 12:53
once i saw an old lady jumping from a bridge in front of a tramway in Montpellier, FR. I was on my way to work ,8Am and hopefully only had cigarettes cause i would have puke. I agree with some of you that says it's very disturbing even though i felt for this women and her desperate move. I guess everyone comes to a point in their lives where they have the choice to go on or stop living. That choice is part of our freedom. But one should understand that ones freedom stops where the otherone's freedom starts. and just because I would care about the guys cleaning my guts out of the train, I wouldn't do that under a train.
(ID #52108) Posted on 2007/07/20 13:21
never see or heard train station suicide. our ppl usually(not often, but mostly) kill themself by drinking a bug spray, or hang themself. i did have a moment when i want to die. but when that moment come, i feel kinda cold, shaking, and wonder is it painful? well, i;m not going to do that kinda thing. except i;m 50, jobless, and still live my mama in that age
(ID #52109) Posted on 2007/07/20 13:40
i prefer killed by a morphin when my time come.... died by cancer and heart loss is hurt, aren't they? call me bloodlust or weird, but i did want to see real blood and intestines...
(ID #52110) Posted on 2007/07/20 13:44
This post reminds me of the opening of that ridiculous film "Suicide Club". Why do people do things like that, they may actually put other peoples lives in danger by committing suicide like that.
(ID #52112) Posted on 2007/07/20 13:52
I've already been stuck in train for one or two hours, between Paris and where I live, because of "human accident" like it is usualy called. 4 or 5 times. There is a lot of country's lands on this railway which lasts about 5 hours, and that's where thos accidents happened. So I can't say that I've never thought about it, since it's quite disturbing when your more or less implied into this kind of event. But I'm stunned by the fact families have to pay °_°
(ID #52113) Posted on 2007/07/20 14:00
VF-25 Pilot. Universariate Scholar.
Sorry for double post. This might sound stupid but i suggest we set up a community site to help people deal with suicides by exposing them to as much anime or manga we can get our hands on to change their perspective on life and maybe motivate them to live on. Think about it, nonstop bombardment of Haruhi, Lucky Star, and anything else until they see the light. Hows that?
(ID #52116) Posted on 2007/07/20 14:07
thats really sad but whats more sad is the pol 49% of people said yes thats scary !!
(ID #52118) Posted on 2007/07/20 14:11
Setsuna-san thats an excelent idea i back you up 100%
(ID #52119) Posted on 2007/07/20 14:13
achraf1989: Hardly anyone takes danny's polls seriously. Especially when most of the time its just random people off the internet & not those that are registered members here. So takes these poll figures with a grain of salt ;) But I'm surprised many of you are eager to have a useful discussion about problems with suicide. Glad to know there are some sane people who use the internet.
(ID #52122) Posted on 2007/07/20 14:50
lol..so many comments here..let's just hope that there will be one less human in this world thinking of suicide 24-7.. and of cos, dannychoo.com-ers are not, definitely not, one of them cos we have a goal: AKIHABARA!!!!
(ID #52123) Posted on 2007/07/20 15:09
MIS Executive
jeez..cant stand real life blood.These ppl choose suicide as the last resort upon problems intervine in their life.Maybe they put their brains on their knee caps.Anyway,from where i came from its "normal" *i think* for indian's races to commit suicide on railways.Maybe due to their habits of drinking liquor till they end up snoozing on the rail tracks. Gosh..what a bummer...pity..pity..pity..(no harsh meant for any Indian's in here.
(ID #52124) Posted on 2007/07/20 15:23
animefreak222 (登録日: 2007/05/27 13:34)
not surprising,most of the cases of ppl committing suicide on trains are ppl who have depression,mental illness,stress or had traumatic incidents such as bullying.usually when i think abt it,why wuld ppl choose to kill themselves on trains not knowing how their bodies wuld look like after they get hit.hmmm...
(ID #52125) Posted on 2007/07/20 15:28
@animefreak222 believe me man you wouldnt want to see that its not a way to die really i personnaly saw it near my school in rabat here in morocco a guy jumped in front of a high speed train and i saw him pass by me like any normal person and a few seconds later his dead the only part of his body that i could still see was his torso and his head a few meters further away real disturbing experience
(ID #52128) Posted on 2007/07/20 16:09
RAVAGE
Oy! this is the result of a technocrat society, wake up, Mother nature needs HELP.
(ID #52129) Posted on 2007/07/20 16:14
@Kirakun: Of course, interfering with others' lives (with delays and such) when you want to end yours is surely not something considerate to do at all. I also agree that it can shock people for life, especially kids. Even desperate people need to keep a sense of respect of others while trying to end their lives... If possible.
(ID #52130) Posted on 2007/07/20 17:07
Video Editor / Sound Designer / DJ
Hmmm - I used to take to Chuo line every day some of my Gai-jin friends called it the "CHUO-cide" line. I am always saddened by suicides everywhere. They seem to be too common in Japan. Is it the fact that Japanese people dont hug or touch eachother? Or that they dont even look eachother in the eyes on the street (neither do people in UK). Even just say "hi" to someone they dont know is VERY uncommon. Japan is a very very cool place and I love it , but socially speaking REALLY COLD. Except for Okinawa, but thats not really Japan...
(ID #52131) Posted on 2007/07/20 17:28
@D_Blade: that's right ^^
(ID #52132) Posted on 2007/07/20 20:06
Troubleshooter, Universal Exports
@Dragun, No trying to be argumentative, but most "westerners" would not and do not work as the Japanese do. That's not to say that some of us don't put in a lot of hour and hard work. Simple because in Japan the work ethic that people like you and others have is a societal norm. I agree, I worked freelance for a while and one need to move if they want to make money. In my current position I work six days a week as well. I always bring work home and spend many hours working here at home. I look at it this way, I just change location and scenery during the day and don't give thought to how many hours I work. @Sean, I think people in Osaka are friendly. You know traditional it's a big no no to show affection in public. The younger people often ignore that to extreme, by Japanese standards. ^o^ I've often seen couples of all ages holding hands in Japan. Once seen a really cute couple on the train. ^^; Two middle school age kids probably first time boyfriend-girlfriend stuff. I wasn't the only person watching... ^o^
(ID #52135) Posted on 2007/07/20 21:02
Kousaka in USA
Ouch! Sounds painfull to jump in front of a speeding train. Suicide seems to be most prevalent in highly populated cities, where people suffer certain levels of stress and depression that make them just suddenly snap.
(ID #52136) Posted on 2007/07/20 22:28
Hobby Store clerk guy thing...
Wow, there's been incidents of people falling in front of trains here but usually because someone pushed them... Not that anyone would wanna suicide on our trains, they're always late =_= It's pretty horrible to have to clean up the mess of a train suicide, not to mention the families that have to deal with loss of a member in such fashion.
(ID #52141) Posted on 2007/07/20 23:43
VF-25 Pilot. Universariate Scholar.
@Collector: i dont think suicide can be said as common in any society. That said drinking a hell lot of liquor does lead to depression and possibly suicide. Where i come from people are usually killed by the trains when they cross the tracks. Yes, the 'tracks'!!
(ID #52151) Posted on 2007/07/21 01:04
@Edward: Yes, you got that right, youths tend to show their affection in public, a thing that is not seen in more traditional families (at least I know about Asian ones) and with older generations. It's a new trend that sometimes causes generation clash. Let's say they are getting "occidentalized" and that is not a bad thing, if they don't go overboard. I am one of them, too (as I was born in Europe). ^_^ I would also like to talk about inter-ethnic relationships, but that is way off-topic. And for last time, don't worry and don't excuse yourself, it was a normal reaction. :)
(ID #52153) Posted on 2007/07/21 01:38
@Sean: It's just a different culture (norms, customs, trends, rites and such). What seems obvious to you is not always to the other and the avoidance of eye contact is more like a sign of respect in Asia. I am taking a course of diversity right now and it really is great to understand how other people around the world see life. I hope you see my point. Sorry for expressing myself that much on this post. Couldn't help it. I guess I'll return to silence now. XD
(ID #52156) Posted on 2007/07/21 01:44
Antabax
is suicide becoming a norm ? about last month, a girl had attempt suicide near my living place and I was able to take some pics and wrote about it. i heard in tokyo there is some sort of suicide club. cmon, if you die, what do you get ? nothing, zilch. better just live on with your life and enjoy before you die. thats better.
(ID #52160) Posted on 2007/07/21 01:48
atleast, use a pill or something. dont die in a horrible way please. im getting sick of it.
(ID #52161) Posted on 2007/07/21 01:51
err, the oly thing that comes to mind is the movie "Suicide Club". all those girls hold hands and jump in front of an oncoming train at the begining of the movie. weird but good none the less.
(ID #52164) Posted on 2007/07/21 01:58
part time illustrationist, doll clothing seamstress
When in Japan, I was rather surprised that even tho there are quite frequent incidences which involves human life under the trains, the service still goes on O_O; I guess they have ways to either clean up quickly or reroute ^^;
(ID #52170) Posted on 2007/07/21 02:43
Man...so i guess those action movies where action heroes avoid being rammed/dragged by trains by staying in between the tracks won't work in reality eh? I'm quite shocked that this is a common way to commit suicide though. Sounds messy and troubles a lot of people from commuters to the family. And about trains with rubber wheels.....i feel sorry for the dude who didn't know and tried to kill himself only to suffer much pain and to fork up medical/compensation bills.
(ID #52174) Posted on 2007/07/21 03:47
well lucky for me. to know that my country train is as slow as a tank, or even slower. so there won