ダウンロード生活
(
90)
Wed 2007/09/26 22:12
僕個人の意見では、ダウンロードを違法にするのではなく、数百万人がダウンしている事態をMonetizationする方法を考えるべきではないかと。
昨日はウェブ2.0のThe New Context Conference 2007でAshwin Navinさん（Bit Torrent社長兼共同創業者）の講演を見に行きました。彼は映画スタジオとコラボし、この事態を利用してmonetizationしている。
ところで、この記事のコは今年の冬に発売されるFortune Arterialに出てくるヘロイン。記事とまったく関係ない。
The issue I can never wrap my mind around is this: alot of what we download we would have never bought in the first place, not that we don't like it, but it is plain too expensive. What we have happening is a digital dark ages where only a select few will have access to entertainment and the rest of us will depend on others to explain what happens.
(ID #57822) Posted on 2007/09/26 22:25
So how is this going to effect the overall fansub community?
(ID #57823) Posted on 2007/09/26 22:26
OMG!! This would make me a crimminal instantly XD
(ID #57824) Posted on 2007/09/26 22:27
Piracy is the the way of life here. It's the bread and butter for a lot of people that they'd kill the law enforcement if the stuff they're selling are going to be confiscated. How will Japan stop people from uploading stuff to YouTube? Good question there Danny.
(ID #57825) Posted on 2007/09/26 22:28
Web Design & Development
Everything I download is stuff I would never actually pay for anyway. Besides, if it weren't for downloading I never would've gotten into anime, I never would've found 99% of the music I listen to, I never would've found out about half the games I have. When I like something I will buy it, but I have to actually know it exists before I can know whether or not I like it.
(ID #57826) Posted on 2007/09/26 22:32
BT downloading wont be stop! Maybe those publisher should think of a way to earn from it, place commercial in the internet version! If u cant win them, Join them!!!!! And by the way aint ODEX against the law by checking on wat ppl dl or doing online! They should be sue!!!
(ID #57827) Posted on 2007/09/26 22:33
Here we download anime for 3 reasons. 1- Because we like it. 2- Because we don't have enough money to import animes. And 3- Because anime is very scarce here with barely no series at all and the ones they show are really old or are just for kids. I will keep downloading anime, piracy has always existed since the first audio tape came out and I think the Japanese anime, manga market suffered a boost because of fansubs, because otherwise we wouldn't be waisting a lot of money buying figures, gunpla, manga, dvds, artbooks, etc....
(ID #57828) Posted on 2007/09/26 22:39
Game Designer & 2D Artist
I wonder. Which one considered illegal and which one is not? When you're in the US, is it illegal to d/l Japanese eroge that's not being released in US? And in Japan, is it illegal to d/l other country games/music that is not released in Japan?
(ID #57829) Posted on 2007/09/26 22:41
Kyoji in UK
It's not hard to block illegal downloads if you think about it. All the government would have to do is work with ISPs so that they filter out the right traffic. Just like how some ISPs are throttling P2P and BT traffic over here. Individuals would then have to submit written proof to add sites to a white list so that they can access them say, a company network or only legitimate video sites. It would be costly to run such a system but if companies start monetizing from downloads like Ashwin then I'm sure they'll manage.
(ID #57830) Posted on 2007/09/26 22:47
The governments are going to do what they think is right (and by that I mean profitable, and more convenient), and people are going to do what they want (by that I mean "get away with"). Its kind of like speeding out here, everyone speeds.. a LOT. Sometimes people get caught, and then they are good for a while... then they just do it again when they feel they wont get caught. The truth is, if the greater majority of people download from P2P sites, then there is not much any Government or organization can do to stop it. It would cost them more than it is worth. BUT,.. they WILL make examples of some people.
(ID #57832) Posted on 2007/09/26 23:00
Plus, if Danny didnt share pictures and videos with me, I wouldnt have learned of all this new anime and figures and such that I like. He is actually PROMOTING these products, and opening my limited (because I live in the USA) Horizons. So kudos and tell "the man" to go play a game of hide and go F*#k himself.
(ID #57833) Posted on 2007/09/26 23:03
University English Teacher
Agreed. The stuff I download I would never actually buy. But Danny, perhaps your poll should have been a little more expanded on the 10gb + end. I think I'm currently hitting about half a terabyte a month. At least I'll have a big supply of stuff for when the interwebs die...
(ID #57835) Posted on 2007/09/26 23:06
University English Teacher
btw, Kyoji - you can encrypt your torrent traffic so it's not detectable as a torrent. ISPs could not block it.
(ID #57837) Posted on 2007/09/26 23:08
We have legal vendors of pirated movie, anime, software, games, etc. Remember how the police assisting those rackets? Not that I complain or everything when I can buy anime and PS2 DVD for 50 cents each or licking my pirated software for 2 bucks each. Don't think those pirated products will be steamrolled anytime soon and I hope not :p. According to some article, my hometown is the biggest, if not, one of the biggest haven of pirated software. Ahh, the irony of living in 3rd world country.
(ID #57838) Posted on 2007/09/26 23:12
Web Developer/ウェブデベロッパー, Photographer/写真や
I don't know about the situation over here but back at home, people aren't really able to afford anime as 1.) Each DVD set (R2) cost 5000 Yen and above, which is equivilent to about the price of a PC game. 2.) The upkeep of Anime DVDs will cost you alot of money unless you've got a money printing machine at home ^^; 3.) There are local anime companies available but I don't know how many people would like that. Otaku pride or something. So people 'prefer' downloading them instead. I personally like the doujinshis and illustrations more ^^;
(ID #57839) Posted on 2007/09/26 23:14
I agree with NeuroRelay in that as customers we are generally on the losing side because the only options we have are: - To pay the price they set (and companies like to set random numbers when they want to); - To refuse and maybe wait until it becomes cheaper and that demand lowers compared to the offer; - To go for alternative ways, which are more or less illegal. I know some behaviors are unacceptable, like doing mass download and resell it for personal profit (something rather lucrative but dangerous), but setting outrageous prices that do not reflect quality or durability is no better. So well, I do download anime stuff, but I truly keep it for myself and try not to go for a target that is too big for me to chew on. And I'm the "bargain bin guy" normally, so I can be considered as a "bad consumer". I don't like this idea of consumerism, and I try to limit my participation to the max (without being stingy either).
(ID #57841) Posted on 2007/09/26 23:17
And by the way, I did use torrents a lot when completing my collection of "ultimate PS1 games" (RPG and fighting games mostly), way after this console met its demise... So I can't be guilty of that. I don't download many anime episodes either and most of what I watch (3 series now) is via streaming. The only thing that goes against me is anime music (but I only have 40 of them on my playlist)... So yeah.
(ID #57842) Posted on 2007/09/26 23:24
There's also an organization, called B.I.G. (Ban Illegale software en Games) here that tries to ban illegal downloads, but other then the existence of this organization I haven't seen them doing anything. ^^ BTW Danny, that's not Erika, but Haruna. =)
(ID #57843) Posted on 2007/09/26 23:32
Hobby Store clerk guy thing...
Hard to get obviously pirated stuff here, but if you look around you can find it. I don't really bother myself...the internet is more than enough for me for either downloading or ordering stuff. Waiting for Fortune Aterial tho :3
(ID #57844) Posted on 2007/09/26 23:36
What bunch of freeloaders. Seriously who be satisfied with downloaded anime? Anime on dvd isnt expensive anymore (least in the uk) & your cheapening the experience for yourself. I never keep what I download & gets deleted after a week. When an anime series gets licensed in the uk I buy the official dvds.
(ID #57847) Posted on 2007/09/26 23:58
VF-25 Pilot. Universariate Scholar.
pirated anime/movie/drama series are all available in malaysia, hell we've even been exporting pirated stuff for years!!! I even got tricked into buying pirated anime with an government certified original sticker on it!!! IMHO watching anime on dvd somehow gives me more satisfaction as compared to downloading it.
(ID #57848) Posted on 2007/09/27 00:27
Well, in Brazil it goes something like that: Most gaming companies still don't have official retailers here because pirating in Brazil is sky high. That's how pirating is over here. But the government has only themselves to blame for it. The thing is: Our country is the one which charges most taxes for imported stuff. A recent research showed that you'll pay more for an iPod here on Brazil than any other country in the word. Electronic taxes can go up to more than 60% the original price, that with taxes only, I'm not even including shipping. The result is, you have people selling pirated stuff everywhere. Not only movies, games and media... you have electronics, toys, clothing and everything you can imagine. But I don't buy pirated stuff. Sometimes I download stuff for testing. Games I'm playing right now , I paid for them all. Animes I only get those that doesn't exist here in Brazil, which unfortunately are almost every anime out there. I'd probably pirate more stuff if I had the time to use/watch/enjoy them, but nowadays, movies for instance, I usually watch only when I go to the movies.
(ID #57850) Posted on 2007/09/27 00:38
Geek Liaison
Law like this are basically worthless as they are next to imposable to enforce fully. The MPAA and RIAA have been trying to stop internet download for years and they haven't be able to stop it. Industry has to stop trying to stop it and start finding way to make money off of it.
(ID #57851) Posted on 2007/09/27 00:42
Subaruhess, as long as there are Japanese subtitles and that the English dub is not awful, why not? But I feel I'm not committed enough to anime to buy DVDs. I am too outdated to be a true anime fan, anyway. T_T
(ID #57852) Posted on 2007/09/27 00:48
at an average, i download more than 10GB worth of files from the great internets ^^ piracy here in the philippines is illegal and the governmenr even created a special task force called Optical Media Board (OMB) that keeps pirated audio and video materials at bay but during the past few month, they've only be able to raid several retailers who sells pirated material and they've only apprehended only a few of the big fishes who mass produce pirated materials i agree that companies should invest and monetize this kind of technology instead of stopping it. prevention is costly while embracing it will grant them more money ^^
(ID #57853) Posted on 2007/09/27 00:53
Willy
In were i live with horrible tv shows all the time, the internet gives me the key, of course i only download from fansubs with content in spanish or english, i know this is wrong that webs are illegal but they are my only source of actual good and cheap contents. I´m gargabage i know i admire so many superheroes for they principles like justice truth, and i´m just a consumer of piracy. i really feel bad about that. i was trying to erase that sensation buying original stuff (almost impossible to find it here) but then when i tried to be a good guy i received what i deserve. i will not give details its not neccesary but i can say something in this universe what you do is what you receive. and now i feel very sad about what i receive it will pass a long time before i decide to buy another anime figure....i´m really sad. i have what i deserve.
(ID #57854) Posted on 2007/09/27 00:54
Overpaid Computer Nerd
Well, if they've got the balls to come to Texas to arrest me, they can go for it. :p
(ID #57855) Posted on 2007/09/27 00:57
In Canada its legal to download any digital media, as long as its for "backup" purposes only. This means we can download games, anime, movies and just about everything else we want as long as we have the original. So using the guise of "I lost the original right after I downloaded the backup" you can get away with anything. That said, I don't really think its all that bad because if you take something like Japanese music which doesn't get released here, my downloading isn't costing them anything because they were never expecting to make any money from sales in North America anyways
(ID #57856) Posted on 2007/09/27 00:58
And... Would you go for a series of 100, 200, 300 or even more episodes on DVD? If so, you earn a "Wow". 13 or 26 episodes are easy enough, if you got enough money... I reckon. Please excuse me if I went a bit harsh there, but money is sometimes really hard to get and I may go too far in my "no unnecessary waste" reasonings.
(ID #57857) Posted on 2007/09/27 00:58
"Smelly" Recruit
erm..ODEX is not an organization, but a company...and it's still suing people around for downloading animes... and regarding the creator of Bit Torrent, does he plan to create a bittorrent client to legally download movies that require u to pay while u download? if that's the case, good!! cos hikikomoris will not have to step out of the house again to watch a movie!!
(ID #57858) Posted on 2007/09/27 01:05
Willy
i forgot to tell you i really love my country but i feel sad for a lot of things that happens here. one of them: piracy stills being indifferent to the laws, you can buy piracy everywere (and when i say everywere is everywere i can proube it photos, videos,etc) movies 1 dollar software it only depends of the number of discs used by the program maybe 2 dollars. i´m real sad.
(ID #57859) Posted on 2007/09/27 01:05
If they know a better way to get anime in latin america where only have license over very clasic anime is a good moment to say it And i belive México don´t have laws agaist that, and if they have are very unusful like the other laws here (but that is other topic). The said that is wrong but, they know that the need us to download and buy stuff and make quicks license posible. They love us in the inside (of their wallets)
(ID #57861) Posted on 2007/09/27 01:25
Plast Processing Engineer
10GB!? Hell Danny. I down more than that every day...
(ID #57864) Posted on 2007/09/27 01:31
Most movies and games were pirated in Russia, but hey, they were really cheap! But there is nothing like that in where I live now. I dont know how but my internet provider somehow found out that I was using bittorrent to download movies. The letter said next time I would have to pay a fine. So now I have to look for direct download -_-;.
(ID #57865) Posted on 2007/09/27 01:33
too bad you dnt have the option for more than 100gb a month ^_^
(ID #57866) Posted on 2007/09/27 01:41
average i dl about more than 70GB, not so sure, because monthly bandwidth usage for me is 80GB++, if my line speed stable i think i can use more than 100GB a month..
(ID #57867) Posted on 2007/09/27 02:02
Policy & Research Officer
Well its obvious what people do with their bandwidth when ISPs keep offering higher download speed. If i'm not gonna download stuffs, why would I subscribe to unlimited high speed broadband plan.
(ID #57868) Posted on 2007/09/27 02:07
Ouch, big hit for the anime community, especially us bloggers. I really hope this doesn't come to pass, many bloggers in Thailand are already getting hit. I know there will be attempts to stop this but it won't be that easy for the government.
(ID #57869) Posted on 2007/09/27 02:18
I wouldn't mind paying for my animes if they are released fast enough and of a high quality. Can't wait to get HD 720p HD-DVD/Blu-ray version of Darker than Black.
(ID #57870) Posted on 2007/09/27 02:20
if thast the case i rather buy the official copy -.-" at least the box looks nice =P
(ID #57872) Posted on 2007/09/27 02:31
There are few English langiuage channels here 6-8 (inc 4 movie channels)so I tend to download US tv. Actually did try to get some shows via iTunes but alas the US iTunes does not allow people outside North America to buy....so until there is an alternative (and waiting two years for the DVD or till it is finally on tv here is not a good option)I'll get my daily tv dose from bit torrent. Movies I buy or see in the cinema. Anime is hard to get with English subtitles so I download the fansubs....
(ID #57873) Posted on 2007/09/27 02:49
D_blade; Official dvds have both the original japanese & dub audio format. Honestly, is a fanmade subtitled tv recording better than the official licensed product?
(ID #57874) Posted on 2007/09/27 03:03
High School Student, College student, Part-time Ninja
Today's world is an internet world. Any thing can be shared instantly. People want to access different things NOW. No one want to wait. Every thing should be internationally available. They should sell any show in a low price via the internet the very moment a show had just aired. Music should be internationally available. No one should import a CD or download them on line illegally. I admit that I download musics, but only those that I can't find. Movies and games should not have regional code. I want to watch foreign movies on any DVD players. No mater what laws are passed, the power of the masses (people) will make any law obsolete or unenforcable. FIGHT THE POWER!!!
(ID #57875) Posted on 2007/09/27 03:09
As long as they don't give the subbing to a team that is absolutely unknowledgeable of the original spirit (the worst being deforming names and locations), then all is for the better. Take Inuyasha for example... Hachi the Tanuki, was called a racoon-dog... Really a shame. But there are worse examples I can't remember.
(ID #57876) Posted on 2007/09/27 03:12
*raccoon I will return to silence now. Sorry for commenting so many times. -_-;
(ID #57877) Posted on 2007/09/27 03:14
Procurement officer / Teacher
Copyright is always such a touchy subject. There such a strong human desire of 'want' in this day and age. At the end of the day though the publishers determine whatever copyright is to apply to their product and people must abide by it. You can be all against it, hell I certainly am at the best of times myself. But its not our say. Its just a product, you want it you get it the way the supplier says. There’s no golden ring around anyone’s head that gives everyone the right to do whatever the please. Oh and by the way I have a very shady background, the name uradox in particular is known a few years back. I spent a very long time removing copyright protections from products... so im not one eyed in my views. I see things from both sides these days. If you break the law that’s fine, just as long as you acknowledge that you are and can live with whatever might or might not happen to you :) Enough of my rant :)
(ID #57878) Posted on 2007/09/27 03:46
In Finland the copyright law illegalizes uploading and downloading copyrighted stuff.. but they just can't keep an eye on every person using internet. The current law would say that if you have music in your mp3-player and a policeofficer doubts that you've illegal music in it, you should prove it somehow that you have bought it from internet instead of ripping it to your computer and then copied it to your player.. quite difficult, huh? :-p but i'd like to see if they could get it illegalized and BETTER
(ID #57879) Posted on 2007/09/27 04:32
i agree with the bit toreent guy.. the man should find a wayy to change with the times instead of trying to enforce old copyright laws.. the same thing happened when vhs came out and the companys try to make THAT illegal.. but they didnt' and changed.. so downloading isn't going to stop..and the MAN just needs to deal with it.. instead of cracking down on a 70y/o granny with a $10000 fine...>_>
(ID #57880) Posted on 2007/09/27 04:54
Subaruhess, actually, they are. If you compare the fansubs to the production subs, sometimes you find out how much you are missing with the production. I never realized this until someone showed me both on the same series. The dialogue gets washed out, and dumbed down because they dont really care if you understand the in-depth meaning to a word or phrase. I cant tell you how many times fansubs have posted explanations at the top of the screen to a japanese word I dont understand.
(ID #57881) Posted on 2007/09/27 05:01
D_BLADE, Im with you. Enough said.
(ID #57882) Posted on 2007/09/27 05:01
average of 30GB per month but used to be around 70GB per month before the ISP throttled BT speeds. We don't get good speeds(max at 4Mbps), but at least we get the stuff we want, illegal or not. No action is taken at all against this in Malaysia until now, so yeah... sooner or later it'll happen i guess.
(ID #57883) Posted on 2007/09/27 05:32
That's a bit what it is happening over here. After having tryed to forbid those illegal downloadings, which was a failure, now concerned folks (music companies principally) are trying to monetize buy making agreements with Internet providers.
(ID #57884) Posted on 2007/09/27 05:34
Over here, it's all about Odex.
(ID #57885) Posted on 2007/09/27 05:44
Games addicted
Here in Italy the situation isn't that bad, if someone download illegal material for private use only it's all ok. I mean, law say "don't download movie from internet! It's the same as steal a wallet from someone, will you do it?" But only if u monetize from it could be very bad. Still we have a very big underground illegal market. Like in my city Florence, the evening streets are full of people selling illegal material as console games, DVD, audio cd and more. This is more problematic beocuse the money they earn go straight into "dangerous hands"
(ID #57886) Posted on 2007/09/27 06:27
Hm, I have almost a Terabyte of HDD space and I manage to refill it everytime I buy a stack of DVDs (usually 50) very quickly. I have prolly close to 600 GB of anime across 3 hard drives now, however I will probably never watch all of it *glares at several 100 DVD spindles collected from 2004-2007 sitting in the closet waiting to be viewed*
(ID #57887) Posted on 2007/09/27 07:03
btw, they'll never enforce that law absolutely. People always find a way to get things online, american tv companies were all up in arms alongside the mpaa (yes, I'm not capitalizing on purpose) last year and part of the year before and you can still find -- and could still find then -- american television everywhere online. I know it's incredibly specious reasoning, but if I pay for my cable and pay for my cable internet through the same company then I kinda feel entitled if I miss a show, to download it =P (Yes, I'm well aware of the fact that the network gets the ad revenues and not the cable company). If I can't possibly see a Japanese show anyway, then what's the difference in me downloading it with/without subs to watch it, they wouldn't have been getting my ad dollars anyway.
(ID #57888) Posted on 2007/09/27 07:14
live and use pirated anime, and movies. getting use to it, as those legal stuff never got any cheaper even if it not sells good and already a year. and some fanservice content deleted(cencored) by those stupid legal company, and they work like in amoeba speed, lacking in good title, making piracy are more efficient in this part of the world
(ID #57889) Posted on 2007/09/27 08:21
