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Yikes! Sorry guys. Looks like the questionmark on the end of the title causes problems. What I always do is type out a long comment in a text file before posting or copy the text to the clipboard if something goes wrong. Sorry!
Where's my "AWESOME" option? :(
This one kind of reminds me of violent games leads to school shootings. So I guess I feel the same way about the violent game thing and how I feel is that hopefully the person isn't an idiot and they know what is right from wrong. So watch loli animes but dont go out being a pedophile. I do get annoyed when a lot of the new animes come out and they have a lot of loli themes but sometimes I dont mind watching a few like Sky Girls. So please lets have some common sense so we can all enjoy animes, games, movies, and anything that might influence you to do bad things.
I don't really know what the correct answer would be, as it is about matter of tastes and personal views about morals and limits to behavior. I have never been interested in loli and I find it sometimes repulsive and aggravating (especially about kids -yes, kids, not mature enough adolescents- in really light clothing, if not nude and having intended suggestive poses. The question is that are they suitable for adult play? I would say "no!" in a firm way). Things like eroge and ero doujin can be harmless as well as a channel for unleashing destructive fetishes with an abuse component. It's always the same kind of debate, are they used to suppress destructive impulses or are they encouraging them? Of course, removing "hazardous material" to the ones with a fragile mind would be the best thing to do, but it is not realistic and it impedes on freedom. Violence is really a problem in this world and I fear it is getting worse if not sometimes out of control.
i think everyone is overreacting.
It's a part of human nature for people to over-react on the slightest provocation. It's even more so normal for people to misunderstand(sp?) that which is different. For example, Kodomo no Jikan manga being dropped by distributors from a release in the States; due to mounting pressure and a certain scene in the later chapters (you know which one I'm talking about, for the rest of you, don't let your imaginations get too carried away). As to topic of loli being bad for society or fueling criminal acts; does the entire goth subculture insight people to commit murder? Have video games made *you* more likely to commit acts of violence? Did Tokyo Drift and Initial D have you taking your ride to the nearest mountain pass or country road to... actually, forget that last one... I couldn't help myself. Don't give me that look, you know you wanted to be the drift king too. :P Bottom line, people are always gonna get carried away with such subjects; but looking back at history, western superstitions about Japan aren't as bad as they used to be. edit: good idea changing the topics name danny
By the way Danny, with the eroge site you gave us, I fled to the "Boin" part without shame or further ado. ^^;;;
"Loli" simply referring to a young girl, I think it's misleading and harmful to the otaku culture to lump all of these together. Compared to western nations, Japan has a tremendously high amount of grown women who have extremely youthful appearances. To suggest that these adults cannot be perceived sexually--or that some one who does is perverted--is insulting to them as well as their mates. Certainly a depiction of such a person in drawn form is no more perverse than the content covered. There's also the notable cultural difference that (especially among the otaku culture) it's recognized that men can appreciate the "cute" aesthetic, as well as simply the expression of youthful femininity. Any father who smiles when he sees his daughter with flowers in her hair can understand those. Along those lines, there are plenty of works that feature youthful characters with no sexual content or overtones. While there is some overlap in the works that have been created, those concepts are separate issues from the sexualization of children or teenagers in media. Japan does have a problem with ephibophilia (and, I understand, a larger problem with pedophilia than is let on by statistics), but these "loli" characters are not related to that simply by the virtue of being lolis, absent any sexual content, overtones, or presentation.
I don't know if you guys have seen this but three boys, ages 8 and 9, were charged Monday with raping an 11-year-old girl last week in Georgia. I guess things are quite bad here too... http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/law/11/19/child.rape/index.html#cnnSTCVideo
i aldo like 2D loli but not that far extreme to rape some lil girl ..but as Danny said i also been noticing that loli is now in the ota-culture more often but still harmless because we all know what is wrong and what is good and we all know the consequences
Don't see anything wrong with 2D drawings of underaged girls. Like what everyone else is saying, it's all a matter of preference, and people tend to overreact over things that they fail to understand correctly. Blaming loli animes/mangas for pedophile crimes is like blaming videogames for shooting. Better this than committing actual acts of pedophilia. If it's considered distasteful or morally offensive to depict underaged children in artworks, perhaps they should've condemned and burned those Renaissance artist who drew such depictions on canvas centuries ago.
LOL, I think it depends on the person itself... I like cute girls in animes and manga and such but I will definitely not find any interest in 3D loli... I don't think its any harm, it all depends on the person... Some doujins I've seen are pretty weird, depicting small girls doing "LOL" stuff, I dont think real girls would want to do these kind of things and definitely find it not pleasureful... Once again, I have to say it all depends on the person, if he DOES go out and attack small kids because of some doujin or eroge that destroyed his mind, then it's his own fault cause he started reading doujins and playing eroge in the first place... What I'm trying to say is loli content is just in the realm of fantasy and not to be put into the real world... It all depends on the person, I don't really have an answer and I think does have such thoughts off doing things to little kids, than that person should just keep it to him or herself...
BOKU WA RORIKON
from my point of view, lolicons are into 2d girls that has the physical of an underage(despite the age,pettanko?) and a 2d uderage character that is different with pedophiles which has tendency to "attack" REAL underage.
loli art is cute. Its when its sexualy sugestive when it becomes an issue with people. So the question is do you put the same laws on it as we have against child pornography? i don't know.
Loli just isn't accepted in society which is why people react to it so strongly. I personally stopped caring as loli has popped up everywhere in anime and is now a more common site than before. People who are pedophiles tend to have a defect biologically in their brain or somehow raised in an environment that has affected his/her thinking. I doubt most pedophiles in the world watch anime.
I prefer Yaoi doujin/underground art and I am 100% hetrosexual.
Sexual Disorder is not a casuality for Loli... have taste for little girls or mature womens won't make u the incontrolable desire of sex. I heard that most of sexual disorder are created from another disorder, and 90% from childrens problems. I'm not that fan of Loli, and I think it isn't right, but put blame on it it's too much...
They attract because they find the characters cute, that would be it.
We can't just base on some individual view and justify whole. I personally don't like loli but it doesn't mean that other people who like it be consider as sick or pervert. I think it wrong to set up a standard, if said so apply to where I live (US) we may consider a place full of sex and violence base on the insane amount of graphic on TV and movie.
I know a bunch of girls who dress loli for fun; when they do it, it's a lot less sleazy than it seems to be presented in the modern visual culture.
A lot of misguided people out there by the looks of things.
I just take it as another one of those 'unique' cultures of Japan. I suppose people can just leave it as it is if they feel that it's 'disgusting' or even 'offending' to them, but to justify their disapproval by linking it with crime isn't right at all. I think Danny, you can just go ahead reporting whatever loli news you want on your blog. It's your blog anyway ^^ and let the audience decide whether to read on or not. I mean, you can't satisfy everyone's interest right?
O-okay... Who ever is intrested in this "Loli" stuff is weird.
I believe it is a human right to be able to fap to whatever you feel you must. I feel the lolicons of otaku culture aren't the same kind of pedos you see having their HDs seized by the FBI and getting life. It's just another, among many other, element of otaku culture. You can have your maids, nurses, miko, and your lolis too. Whatever you feel your moe is. On the other hand, there is a disconnect between memes of soceity and that of otaku culture. Once you take such fetishes IRL, people have cause to worry. By itself though harmless. Finally, I think the relation between lolicon and real world attacks is streched at best. The same idiots blamed Doom and CS for school shootings. Loli is just the most apparent thing to direct their anger and disgust towards.
Well I guess i have to blame Char Aznable for making this A trend.. To me, i find Young Girls Cute, I am not attracted to them sexually.. I really dunno with the others if it is a preference or some fetish though i really dunno what to say about this if its harmless or not.. I just Don't Wanna See any Kids ruin their lives or dying because of this.. Just my two cents..
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/sephiroth00/phortsyan/loliconfaq.jpg i have to admit that i love and has a fetish for 2D lolis and i myself is and preferred to be called a lolicon (better than to be called a pedophile) imo, the lolita culture is pretty much harmless ^^ "loli doesn't do evil things, people do" i agree that this kind of fetish is not new to the otaku culture and it only came into light when the otaku culture started to get noticed
I've said it once, and I'll say it again. ロ・リ・イ・タ！ 僕はロリコン！ ロ・リ・イ・タ！ 僕はアブないお兄さん．．． Also, pedo content has been in anime for a while. Some of the very first anime porn was loli porn. It's just that now people are actually paying attention to it. Also: http://youtube.com/watch?v=j2UXUSy3tsA
Also x2: http://www.mistakesofyouth.com/megu-fanservice.jpg So yeah, it's nothing new. Pedophiles have been around since the dawn of time, after all.
I like the comments in here so far. Mostly intellegent people who take the words right out of my mouth. And yes i'm not embarrased to say it but i'm also a loli fan. As a lot of you already said, it's better to be called a loli/lolicon than a pedophile. There's a difference between a culture and a real crime. The culture so far in my opinion is just art. Loli is art. What is so harmful about art? Plus it's a big money maker so far (Note all the Moetan merchandise that is selling in Japan which i'm eager to get my hands on once it reaches the states as soon as late December). TV Anime like the contraversal Kodomo No Jikan isn't just loli, but it also has it's positive sides, one of which where Aoki got Mimi Usa to go back to school. What is harmful about a teacher encouraging his students to go back to school? And i saw episode 6 today, that has no loli whats so ever and has got to be the saddest episode so far. I felt pretty sad for Reiji and Rin after i saw episode 6. As for those who find loli creepy, i hope you do your homework soon. As said so many times here already, it is harmless and it's just 2D art. Lastly i've heard a couple of times recently that the purpose of Loli and Eroge.....etc, etc, was created to avoid real crimes in Japan.
I have been thinking about the same question lately. Imo lolicon are pedo. Here is the definition for lolicon from wikipedia: "Lolicon (ロリコン, rorikon?) is a slang portmanteau of the phrase "Lolita complex". The phrase is a reference to Vladimir Nabokov's book, Lolita, in which a much older man becomes sexually obsessed with a twelve-year-old girl. In Japan, the term is used to describe an attraction to girls below the age of consent, or an individual attracted to such a person. Outside Japan, the term most often refers to a genre of manga and anime where childlike female characters are depicted in a sexualized manner or engaged in sexually explicit acts. The equivalent term for the sexualization of or attraction to young boys is shotacon." Ok, I think nothing wrong with thinking certain 2D girls are cute ( even in real life, there are a lot cute girls and boys err.) but certain Anime just gone too far. 萝莉的时间， Loli's Time. I saw one episode and I could not continue. It's just wrong that the show has grade 3 girls running around doing and saying provocative and sexual things. Some people refer this as another “strange" Japanese Culture. But that's just wrong.
Oh and "Moe (萌え, Moe? /mo'e/, pronounced "mo-eh" literally "budding", as with a plant) is a Japanese slang word originally referring to fetish for or love for characters in video games or anime and manga. " therefore, Moe does not equal Lolicon.
I can understand why lolicons and pedos are often linked, but I really don't think it's a cause for concern. Lolis are cute because their "cute" characteristics are highly caricatured - eyes, cheeks, voice, etc. I believe it's a play on our protective instincts, and on our desire for things with cute characteristics (soft toys, dolls, etc). And too many people are taking its definition out of context - in the anime context, I believe lolicon refers to a person who likes loli anime characters (and here, "like" isn't even really well-defined) - linking it to its contextual meaning in Lolita (sexual attraction and obsession) is too far a stretch. I'm a lolicon, love every single one of my loli anime ^^ but I find most girls IRL around that age to be pretty detestable, sometimes in terms of looks, mostly in terms of behaviour... Probably the only people I can say are cute on the level of lolis are infants and toddlers. If your mind is wandering where I think it is then I think you're a far bigger threat to humanity ;-)
Nothing wrong about Lolita Culture/loli or wat ever, wrong is the people who abuse it. I personally like 2D girl(loli) because they are cute.
I don't think loli anime has much to do with child rape... Whenever I watched a loli anime, and then seeing a real life little kid within the same day, I never viewed those two beings as the same...
I guess it's because of the culture clash. Japanese animation goes for the cute and cuddly art type, while American animations goes for the cool or slapstick funny. Now for some other questions: Playing violent games makes you a killer or a violent person? I don't think so. This is not about personal tastes.. it's about commiting crimes based on these tastes. Not to mention what Danny already said: Real Kids =/= Anime Kids. And here's some more questions: Would you be more suspicious about a guy that watches animes or plays games with lolitas, or your local catholic priest? If lolicons are to be portraied as pedophiles, is it safer for them to be watching lolita animes, or to be completely forbiden from those thus searching for other means to fullfill their "urges". Yeah, it's a complex issue. It's also a cultural thing... Japan is just more open to everything sex related. But crimes in Japan are still crimes, and statistics show that Japan has a lot less Child Abuse crimes than US or other western countries. In my personal opinnion, things turns people on and off are personal, and shouldn't really matter as long as they don't hurt others. It would be far more productive to try to understand what triggers a child rapist mind, then try to randomly put the blame on something you "think" is the cause... like that moron who tries to blame games for school shooting cases and stuff.
ok.. heres a theory.. that otaku and others that make the loli... didn't quite get the girls when they were younger(or even now...>_
The thing is, lolicon and girls in 2D are just as sensual and sexual as adult girls in real life. Real life girls are not like that. One is pure fantasy through and through, while one is real. I think real girls are cute and I like hanging around them, but I never saw them as objects of sexual desire.
So normal art is fine and chibi art is fine, but loli isn't? Loli is just a mix of the two. It achieves cuteness while still having some level of seriousness. Besides, it's just animations on a screen. Do you turn pedo from watching Disney movies? If so, I think Loli anime is the least of your worries--your Psychiatric bills will be a little closer to the top of that list.
As for me, I just don't feel right viewing loli pics. To me, live photography or anime (hentai), it's still an underaged little girl. That's how I see it, regardless of the reasons or culture. Ultimately, it's a personal judgement call.
Cyruz, I'm pretty sure the attention is basically split between the general cuteness and loli characters and the more hardcore, sexual types. To me, complaining about totally clean loli is total nonsense. Though I can understand if people are repulsed by the actually sexy types.
As you probably know from some of my comments, i find loli stuff disturbing! Its fine when theyre shown as innocent, cutesy figures, but as soon as theyre sexualised, it becomes very dodgy indeed. Statistically, it probably doesnt do much harm to Japanese society, but its encouraging feelings amongst people that fancying kids is ok, and in some cases, preferable to girls of legal age. A prime example of this is the game/ dvd/ adult shop Lammtarra in Akiba. We started at the 8th floor and worked our way down. Saw some really dodgy porno stuff like scat, bondage, bukkakke, S&M, but on the 2nd floor, there was a video of a male schoolteacher tickling an unsuspecting young (5-ish) girl. The sound of kids laughter in a place like that made me feel ill. There was a proper display and a TV for it. I was more shocked than all the well dodgy stuff i saw earlier! Stuff like that would get the store in a heapload of trouble just for selling it. So yeah - loli is ok, but not when its sexualised or eroticised!
Have a desire to see a anime/photobook about a 12 years old girl dressing in tiny little cloths is freaking scary. Is like drugs. a lot of people smokes weed, but some of them will be not satisfied in only smokes weed. They wiil search for something strong. Is like with those animes. Not at all will be a freak, but a small part will be. If this isn't a big problem? Well, maybe the high suicide rate, and the low birth rate is. Get a life. Drop the pantsu thing. Go find a real woman. Have a family and save the Japanese people from extintion.
It seems many people loosely associate ecchi and hentai with loli as well, giving loli a really bad name -_- Not liking ecchi/hentai loli is not quite the same thing as not liking loli in general. "Loli" refers to the child-like characteristics of (usually underaged) anime characters. Ecchi refers to the characteristics that play on sensuality and sexuality. Hentai is outright pornographic depiction. Liking loli is not the same thing as liking ecchi and hentai. It's infuriating when ignorant people clump the 3 people and automatically associate the 3.
Oh great, another classic battle between 2 differing views.... This is essentially the same with the GTA controversy that arose just a little while ago! One side says it does influence ppl, the other says the opposite... sigh... Well IMO i dont think it has an influence at all, considering that the Us stats was much higher than Japans. If anything we should instead give more loli stuff to NA so that less real kids get abused. I honestly feel bad for the kids that are abused all over the world but i dont think the loli culture has much, if any impact on the situation. Just like video games!
That was an excellent post btw, and I think it's great for people to talk about this. Personally, I don't think loli characters who are portrayed with otherwise adult characteristics, such as breasts and a very female figure bear much resemblance to normal children, especially considering that such characters are usually done in a very anime style, huge eyes etc. In this case one should be concerned about having a fetish for ridiculously cute drawings of people who don't ultimately resemble humans much. Cute doesn't have to be synonymous with paedophiliia. However, girls in the sky girls series are a different story to my eyes. Although I do not see anything wrong with people with socially unaccepted fetishes, because it's not like you can do something about it. Just because Danny might like lolita characters with no breasts (^^) doesn't mean he will rape small children, in the same way looking at normal women wont make you rape them.
Gah here we go. I think it does have an influence on some people to an extent. That influence can be a number of things. Loli's effects certainly don't extend to everyone however there are those out there whom it does influence. What the extent of the influence is varies from person to person. Personally, I see nothing wrong with it as long as it's not taken too far. I am kind of like youself Danny: I get that "kawaii!" vibe of of most loli. If I find it is living and breathing sexual references up and down the span of 25-30 minutes then I usually shut it off. The market itself- ehhh no comment. Maybe it is something that interests some more than others. Personally I stay out of eroge for the sole fact that I want to remain sane! =).
Kureshii: maybe the problem is that "loli" is more than just child-like characteristics. Someone correct me if I am wrong, but "loli" comes from "lolicon" which does has a sexual meaning. The term was later oversimplified. I see a key oversimplification over this whole issue. 'Loli' is used way too broadly. Cute art is not loli. Child or underage-looking characters are not loli. Cute and "moe" does not imply loli. Shows like Cardcaptor Sakura, DiGi Charat and Lucky Star put a lot of focus on cute designs and moe, but they are hardly loli (yes, it can be argued that Lucky Star is not loli). I see this oversimplification being used either to ignorantly accuse non-loli shows as loli (OMG underage = loli = pervert!) or to use non-lolicon art as toned-down version of lolicon art (the lolicon is not as bad as pedophile argument). In other words, while there is an overreaction on one side of the argument, I do think there is an irresponsible 'underreaction' on the other. --- warning: long rant comes now --- The way I see things, its not the what, but the how. "Moe" has existed for a long time. Underage characters have existed for a long time, fanservice has existed for a long time, and fanservice with underage-looking characters has has existed for a long time, but it doesn't has to be loli in the process. Lolicon (or loli) is when you cross a line where the art becomes something more than "cute" or "moe" and tries to appeal a fetishism. It tries to go beyond cute and tries to sexualize the character, pandering the lolita complex fetish (see Astrana's definition). I can live with that to a certain degree. I can digest it when it remains as a spice, no the main dish. I have plenty artbooks, figures and watch anime that a lot of people could easily label as loli. But at the end of the day, artbooks from people like Goto-P, Aoi Nanase and Noizi Itoh are still focused on cute and colorful artwork instead of relying too much on lolicon, despite the fact that the books often do include ero art. The details of the Melissa Seraphy is something you can appreciate without relying on the castoff. Shows like Shana, Lucky Star, Kanon and even Sky Girls have something to watch them for other than fanservice with underage characters (in some cases there is none). My favorite doujin game for a long time has been Eternal Fighter Zero because the game is solid enough to keep my fighting game fandom interested and boy have I heard the game being labeled as "loli". What does trouble me is that recently there is too much effort to pander a fetish, crossing the line of cute and going into lolicon territory. I don't know what caused it; maybe it was the otaku culture getting out of the closet. But to me at least, its becoming way too prominent and "in your face". Anime with more lolicon-oriented fanservice than necessary. Castoff of underage character figures even when it doesn't makes sense (I can make a whole new rant against excessive castoffs, but this is not the place). Body pillows, etc. You name it. I suppose a big reason why all this annoys me is that sooner or later, if not already, anime fan
